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James Woodcock
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Posted: 12 November 2018 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

DEAD CAN DANCE have released a new album. However, it turns out that the majority of the album was written by one member and Lisa Gerrard only sings on a couple of tracks.

This is causing much uproar among DCD fans as they are calling it a Brendan Parry album and not a DCD album.

So, in similar vein, what are people's thoughts on this area?
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Mario Ribeiro
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Posted: 12 November 2018 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The Final Cut was credited as a Roger Waters album performed by Pink Floyd.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 12 November 2018 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

It`s a tricky one! Remember Trigger`s broom in Only
Fools and Horses? He claimed to have used the same
broom in his job for numerous years, despite changing
the head and handle a fair few times! Is Queen still
Queen, without Freddie Mercury? (I say no, as he had a
distinct voice and writing style) I recall a Tony
Iommi solo album being released under the Black
Sabbath banner as it was thought by the record company
that it would sell better.I think that if there`s a
definitive, recognisable songwriter and/or vocalist
that the group wouldn`t sound the same without, then
they ought to release under a different name.Jeff
Lynne and ELO, springs to mind, he wrote and recorded
their best material and sang on it, basically, he IS
ELO.But some older groups have members leave, to the
point where there is only one original member, it`s
not the group you fell in love with then is it?Of
course, as i mentioned earlier, it all comes down to
business decisions in the end!

Edited by Bill Collins on 12 November 2018 at 9:14am
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 12 November 2018 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Certainly agree it's a tricky one. A distinctive change in the songwriter/vocalist doesn't necessarily make a new group, to my mind. For example, adding Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham to Fleetwood Mac inarguably changed the fundamentals of the group, not just the sound, but the nationality of the members. But I don't think we can argue that the Fleetwood Mac with Nicks and Buckingham isn't the real Fleetwood Mac.

Ditto Genesis without Peter Gabriel. A different era of the group certainly and different sound, but not a new group.

It seems to come down more to whether the new version of the group establishes itself with new music. Queen + guest vocalist seems like a pseudo version of the group because, as you say, Freddie was so distinctive, but it doesn't help that they left such a big gap after Freddie died and have not had a proper hit without Freddie.

There's something instinctive or intuitive  that goes on as to whether something feels it's the real deal or not.

There is an album from 2012 called That's Why God Made The Radio by 'The Beach Boys'. It was produced by Brian Wilson. Brian Wilson co-wrote a lot of the songs. The group is as close to authentic as was possible. Brian, Mike Love, Al Jardine are all founder members. Bruce Johnston was a Beach Boy since the mid 60s. David Marks sang and played on four early albums. But there was no Carl or Dennis, of course. And the album didn't feel like it was genuinely the Beach Boys; more a thing driven by Capitol Records. Hard to objectively say why it feels a bit pseudo. Certainly more genuine than anything since 1985, but without Carl and Dennis it's like the heart and soul of the band are missing. And then there's just that thing called time.




Edited by Peter Martin on 12 November 2018 at 1:20pm
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 14 November 2018 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I agree with Peter, the addition of a member to replace
someone, can lead to greater success, yet it`s still
fundamentally the same group, even though they may
change sound/style like Genesis with Gabriel/Collins,
Sabbath with Ozzy/Dio, Iron Maiden with
DiAnno/Dickinson.
Rush replacing their drummer John Rutsey with Neil Peart
was a definitive game changer for them in both lyrics
and musical progression.
I guess it depends on how many original members you can
replace, before hey may as well be a tribute band.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 14 November 2018 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

As Bill knows, it was never the same when Craig Logan left Bros!
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 14 November 2018 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

The current version of Foreigner that's touring is really Mick Jones with a bunch of other musicians, if I remember right.

I forget which album it's on, but Def Leppard's cover of "Space Oddity" is really Joe Elliott solo.

(And, probably doesn't count, but Journey became dead to me when they fired Steve Perry.)


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Peter Martin
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Posted: 14 November 2018 at 10:16pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

As Bill knows, it was never the same when Craig Logan left Bros
--------------------------------
Strangely, this is very true. Kind of difficult to judge, I suppose, as it's a big span from one album to the next when a band is such a flash in the pan. Still, Too Much was a big hit for them. But, as you say, there was an 80s-fretless-bass-player-shaped hole missing by that point. Acting as a vampire in a Marvel film is the only natural next step if you are the drummer in such circumstances.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 15 November 2018 at 1:11am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

"As Bill knows, it was never the same when Craig Logan
left Bros"

Yes, i was bereft at the time!
Didn`t he go on to greater success in management?

On a similar note, Nick Beggs, the bass player from
Kajagoogoo, is now one of the most respected bass
players in the Prog world.
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Daniel Gillotte
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Posted: 04 December 2018 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Is Journey with the excellent karaoke singing front man still Journey?

Was Van Halen Van Halen when it was Van Hagar?

I think replacing front men is TOUGH. But a bass player or even a drummer or rhythm player is more do-able. (also Rhythm is hard to spell)
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 04 December 2018 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I like Van Halen with DLR or Hagar. Gary Cherone, as much as I liked Exterme, did not fit all all.

Journey, on the other hand, might as well have been Steve Perry's backing band. He stood out more than anyone else. And I'm glad he's back, releasing new music after all these years.


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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 04 December 2018 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

What about the alternate universe Van Halen where Patty Smyth had agreed to replace David Lee Roth? Would that have been Van Halen?
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Craig Bogart
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Posted: 12 April 2019 at 7:02am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Worse for me is when a touring band may still be intact, but they drop a new album only for me to discover later that large chunks of it were played by session musicians filling in for some members and not the people whose faces are on the cover.  In that case, I feel cheated.
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 13 April 2019 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Deep Purple has had many lead singers. Is Ian Gillan the only "real" one? 
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 14 April 2019 at 1:24am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

As far as I'm concerned, yes. 

Joe Lynn Turner was better in Rainbow and with Yngwie Malmsteen, David Coverdale in Whitesnake, and other than `Hush', which is actually a cover, I'm not a big fan of Rod Evans. And most of my favorite songs Ian Gillan not only sang but had a hand in the writing of.






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Bill Collins
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Posted: 14 April 2019 at 5:27am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I agree with what Brian said!
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 14 April 2019 at 11:41pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

You're a wise man, Bill. :)

Also, there are certain groups that are dead to me, or would be, without certain members.

For instance, I know Dokken is named after its lead singer, but I refuse to listen to them without George Lynch in the lineup. And INXS should have disbanded after Michael Hutchinson committed suicide.

There are a lot of bands out there with bad choices for replacement singers, but there's a reason Judas Priest and Iron Maiden pretty much bombed when Halford and Dickinson left. (I'm not a fan of the Tim `Ripper' Owens version of Iced Earth, either....) Not a fan of Saliva without Josey Scott, or Drowning Pool with Jasen Moreno, their current vocalist. 

I wouldn't have been too thrilled if Def Leppard had chosen to replace Rick Allen with another drummer after he lost his arm. With one arm or two he's one of my top 5 favorite drummers, and even with only one, he's still a lot better than plenty of two armed drummers out there.

Van Halen could theoretically continue without Eddie or Alex, since Eddie's son Wolfgang replaced Michael Anthony in the band. But without Eddie, they'd be just a legacy band. And for the record, I said I liked Van Halen with DLR or Hagar, but I forgot to mention that I prefer them with DLR slightly more. 









Edited by Brian Floyd on 14 April 2019 at 11:45pm
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 15 April 2019 at 12:04am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

I'm reminded of the Doors, who released two completely forgettable albums after Morrison died. Probably tough on the rest of the band when they want to continue but nobody cares after one member dies. 

Was never a fan of Michael Anthony of Van Halen but it has to suck when you see something like this...


Like you never existed. 
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 15 April 2019 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Yes, that sucks!Especially as Wolfgang is hardly THAT
slim! Michael Anthony added some great backing vocals in
the live situation, as DLR was never the best singer, he
was a good rhythm section with Alex too!
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 15 April 2019 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Now that's just plain being petty!

As for DLR, I wasn't a fan of his solo career. I can tolerate listening to Yankee Rose due to Steve Vai being on guitar, but that's about it. D LR has a certain swagger to his voice, and most of my favorite VH songs have him on vocals. I'd hate to see him try to cover any of the Hagar era songs....

But right now, I'll take Chickenfoot over Van Halen. Hagar, Satriani, and Anthony? Yes, please!

There was talk of a Pantera reunion with Zakk Wylde on guitar, and I am totally opposed to that happening. That band died for good when Dimebag was murdered, and his brother Vinnie Paul has since passed away. Zakk Wylde's guitar playing style works for Ozzy and his own band Black Label Society, but is far too grungy and muddy for Pantera. Plus, Phil Anselmo's voice is shot from him doing death metal style vocals. I watched a live performance a few years back on Youtube of him attempting to do Mouth For War, and it was not good. The idea of him singing Cowboys From Hell or Cemetary Gates just makes me cringe.




Edited by Brian Floyd on 15 April 2019 at 10:46am
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 15 April 2019 at 11:30am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Chickenfoot is done. Now itís The Circle. Sammy, Mikey, Jason Bonham and Samís guitar player no oneís never heard of. 
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 15 April 2019 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Didn't know that.


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John Popa
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Posted: 15 April 2019 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

I saw DLR on the 'Skyscraper' tour and Van Halen with Sammy on the 'Monsters of Rock' tour, which was the summer 'OU812' launched. The VH show was tremendous, even if it was basically a Sammy concert, but he's one of the great live performers and I liked those first two VH records with him. DLR's show, even with Vai and a really tight backing back, was pretty bad. Dave was always all style and no substance but other than the opening and the end, the entire middle of the show was a first rate bore. But, hey, he rode a surfboard across the arena, that was pretty cool. Poison opened the show and had a lot more going for them as a live act.

I did watch a bootleg of a VH concert from 1984 and it was absolutely terrible. Dave couldn't sing, the tempos were all over the place and no one was together, it was just this frantic mess of a performance with no groove. If someone told me they were all coked out of their minds, it would make perfect sense.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 15 April 2019 at 9:57pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

I saw Van Halen, Van Hagar and Roth live, i enjoyed all,
but as John said, DLR is more a frontman than a singer,
i saw him too on the A Little Ain`t Enough tour, without
Vai (Can`t remember who was on guitar) it was indeed
boring!
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 15 April 2019 at 10:14pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I saw Van Halen with Hagar in 1986 (I think it was his first tour with the band) and I remember not being impressed. The sound quality was awful and they seemed to take forever between songs fiddling with their instruments. 
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