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Topic: The Ghost Monument (S11, E2) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 15 October 2018 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Incha? Ah, my nan used to say that.

Mr Byrne, having lived in England, Canada and the US, you must have noticed a variation in pronunciation at times. Even within a country, there can be such things (in Lancashire, some will stay "I was stood..." instead of "I was standing on a street corner when...").
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 15 October 2018 at 11:34am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Two thoughts:

The new control room is...interesting. Definitely like the interior walls, but I'm not sure how I feel about the rest of it yet. (Need to see it more.)

Why has it taken so long for the Venusian Akido to make a return? 

As for the episode itself, I thought it was okay. Not great, but not bad either. And Jim is right about the Ghost Monument and the cigar. Far too obvious with both.

The new title sequence is....meh. Like the theme, but the visuals not so much. 
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 15 October 2018 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Custard Creams!
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Craig Bogart
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Posted: 15 October 2018 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

They lost me when The Doctor got all demoralized and gave up at the end.  "I failed you...  We'll all be dead in a day..."  and it was up to the loyal companions to cheer her up.  Not how my Doctor operates.
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 15 October 2018 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Here's my duplicate post from another forum:

tl;dr --  I kind of liked this one.

Well, we could have done a lot worse than a straight-up straightforward "We have to get from Point A to Point B because of the MaGuffin" story in the Classic Who mould. I appreciate that Chibnall didn't make the story more complicated than it needed to be (unlike the Moff). Yeah, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and a rather obvious Chekov's Gun... but it's something NuWho has been sorely missing because the new writers get it in their heads there's something wrong with traditional story elements and mechanics and somehow you have to be clever to keep it fresh. There's a reason why these kinds of tropes have been around since humans were banging rocks together -- they are effective and they successfully convey ideas quickly without having to reinvent (or rewrite) the wheel.

Likewise, I felt Jodie was channeling Tennant in her delivery and emphasis which isn't unwelcome. I don't particularly like it when they try too hard to make a new Doctor so different from their predecessors they lose sight of what makes the character work. Jodie seems to be settling in.

I was kind of underwhelmed by the new TARDIS interior. It's not horrible but there's something off about it. It seemed a little unoriginal (a little too much RTD, and I tend to dislike the 'inside of the police box view' esthetic of the new series) and the lighting needs to be turned up a bit -- I suspect improving the lighting will expose some of the corners they cut to save production costs. 

Ladders are apparently the new corridors. Well, at least for Ryan it is.

The companion dynamic is fascinating to watch... it's like a mirror of the Hartnell-era TARDIS crew, with a budding romance between the younger cast and Graham being the level-headed logical one. They also answer one of my biggest nitpicks with the opening epsiode seemingly ignoring the (new series) canon of both the TARDIS and the Doctor needing to be present for telepathic translation to work.

The incidental music was great. The theme music is growing on me and I like that you can hear bits of Derbyshire-Granger in there. Keeping the Classic Who cliffhanger sting is A++, if it isn't broken it doesn't need fixing.

The visuals of the title sequence are... erm... too busy and unfocused and that's being generous. It kind of looks like someone took the films for the Pertwee credits, set them ablaze and then vomited on them to put the fire out. You can see what they were trying to do with it but it just doesn't come together. It's still miles ahead of the "travelling through someones digestive tract to the theme of the X-files" garbage of the early Matt Smith era (or any of the Smith titles for that matter) but that's a pretty easy race to win. I don't think the new series has bested the original RTD titles. They got it right the first time.

So, overall I liked this one a little better than the opener. 
8/10
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 16 October 2018 at 12:22am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I honestly get the impression the writers have never  watched or read any sci-fi before - the 'secret' of the  Ghost Monument was obvious the second it was mentioned, 

———

I don’t get this criticism. It was never played as a mystery. The Doctor (and the audience) realize what the Ghost Monument is immediately, and she demands to see what it looks like. You are complaining that something that is supposed to be obvious is obvious. 
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Jim Muir
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Posted: 16 October 2018 at 2:16am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I respectfully suggest you go back and rewatch the
scene, Michael. The Doctor has --no idea-- what the
Ghost Monument is, until she's shown it on the
holographic display.
She was as surprised as my wife and children were, and
I suspect, much of the casual audience.

Certainly from a storytelling POV, we've now had two
extremely average tales which I would have regarded as
filler material in previous seasons, which is
concerning for a big relaunch.

Rob: <<<<Yeah, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and a
rather obvious Chekov's Gun... but it's something NuWho
has been sorely missing because the new writers get it
in their heads there's something wrong with traditional
story elements and mechanics and somehow you have to be
clever to keep it fresh>>>>

Could not disagree more with this. I don't think NuWho
- or any fiction, for that matter - should rely on such
obvious tropes or well worn story mechanics UNLESS you
can make it fresh. Its just plain lazy.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 16 October 2018 at 5:08am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I respectfully suggest you go back and rewatch the scene, Michael. The Doctor has --no idea-- what the Ghost Monument is, until she's shown it on the holographic display.

———

I’d suggest that you go back and rewatch the scene. She hears that the monument appears every 1000 days in the same place, and she becomes focused on what it looks like. I think what you are interpreting as surprise on the Doctor’s face is relief. That expression remains on her face throughout the discussion of it being a police box. Unless you want to believe that she’s completely dumbfounded that the Ghost Monument is the TARDIS, that look isn’t surprise.

Regardless, it’s barely a minute between the Ghost Monument being mentioned as the finish line and it being revealed as the TARDIS. It wasn’t played as a mystery or some big twist. 
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Richard Stevens
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Posted: 16 October 2018 at 7:44am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I also like (second episode they've done this), where the Doctor only had partial knowledge of the situation not only needed more information to solve things, but was wrong from time to time.  She's had to adjust her opinion of the situation to new data more than once.  This avoids her relying on encyclopedic knowledge of everything, and requires her to be intelligent.

******

Agree 100% with this! I think what I'm enjoying most about this series is that's she's been forced to *think* and not *remember.* They took a dollop of what was good about the 8th Doctor (TV movie amnesiac) and mixed it into some pretty straightforward stories about alien things.

I think it has the effect of resetting what is "amazing" on the show. We'd all be crazy amazed to wake up on a space ship or meet an alien, no matter how boring it is. It's satisfying and simpler.

I like the new TARDIS interior better than the screwdriver design, but I can see how they relate to each other and like them more because of it.


Edited by Richard Stevens on 16 October 2018 at 7:49am
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