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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: 05 October 2018 at 11:44am | IP Logged | 1
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And what's wrong with Playstation, Game of Thrones, or
partying (not that I personally have a Playstation,
watch Game of Thrones, or do much partying these days)
as long as I'm not getting into trouble because of any
of it?
If I'm just living my life normally, going to work,
paying my bills, not hurting anyone, why do I need to
my mind on some "God?"
---
It is my belief that 98% of those who believe in the
Bible are not doing anything right. Which could
explain unanswered prayers.
You are supposed to give up all that you have except
the minimal needs. That means no playing games for
hours and hours, while there is someone starving on
the street. No watching Game of Thrones when there are
people in the local hospital in great pain, and many
alone with no one to talk to.
You are supposed to be helping others daily.
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Jabari Lamar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 October 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 351
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| Posted: 05 October 2018 at 12:24pm | IP Logged | 2
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Well that sounds boring as shit. PASS.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4495
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| Posted: 05 October 2018 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 3
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I always wonder about the God who is supposed to like or reward mindless chanting of adoration or reciting pre-written 'prayers'. Logically I think it's self-brainwashing, like Trump does when he recites total lies enough times he can almost believe them himself and be outraged over anyone questioning them. There's also the praying in public where you get some sort of easy acceptance by other such people, but as the Bible itself says those people already have their reward.
A double-edged sword, it can lead to really thinking deeply on issues or to a sheer abrogating of the burden of your own thoughts/will. Look what happens when a lot of people submit and fall in line robotlike behind anything. I tend to come from a background of doing good acts as the expression of a personal and human faith, the mustard seed thing, not the big noise showing off ranking over others and proclaiming oneself saved. Also putting people before things/flags/parties/states/whatever.
To quietly act on faith and plant a seed of hope for the future or help for the present while still having serious doubts must be truly divine... the salt of the earth right there. Dogmatic absolutists are more road to hell paved with good intentions. Then again, some say they actually have talked to God... apparently told Bush Jr. he wanted him to be pres... and WKRP DJ Doctor Johnny Fever to be a golf pro... maybe... it got kind of garbled through the ether or something... like pancakes and honey became locusts and honey through the translations and centuries.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 05 October 2018 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 4
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I come up with a scenario years ago (shared previously). It's not totally original, and I'm sure some have said better, but this is it:
A wicked dictator (is there another kind?) could butcher countless people. And at the age of 85, he could be dying. He could sincerely have a deathbed conversion - and under biblical doctrine, that means Heaven, right?
Then you have an atheist nurse. In her twenties, she decided to travel and work as a nurse in vulnerable communities within, say, Africa. She gives freely of her time and contributes something to the world. She helps save countless lives. But she does not believe in any way, shape or form. At 75, she passes away of natural causes. No Heaven for her.
She lived a more altruistic life than most. The dictator ruined lives and took lives. How can it be fair he gets to Heaven and the nurse doesn't?
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Jabari Lamar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 October 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 351
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| Posted: 05 October 2018 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 5
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The nurse doesn't even have to be an atheist, she could be a sincere believer of the "wrong" religion. And that would typically be through no real fault of her own, as the vast majority of religious people follow whatever faith they were raised in, or earliest exposed to, which is often determined by random factors beyond their control. Either way she theoretically would suffer the same fate as an atheist in this scenario.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 05 October 2018 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | 6
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Indeed.
I always had a problem with the "No-one comes to the Father except through me..." doctrine.
A person born in India could well be raised a Hindu. A person in Indonesia could be raised a Muslim. And sincerely believe it. Seems unfair that they could fail to get to Heaven due to being in the "wrong" religion.
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: 05 October 2018 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 7
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She lived a more altruistic life than most. The
dictator ruined lives and took lives. How can it be
fair he gets to Heaven and the nurse doesn't?
---
It doesn't seem fair to me at all, but the idea is,
none of us are good enough for heaven. Your actions
don't get you in, just grace. What your actions do get
you is more recognition/reward once you get there.
I would like to think that any repentance that Hitler
could have had at his death bed was not sincere enough
and rejected. I like the idea of justice and those who
need punishment getting it. But as some have pointed
out to me, if that standard was held to me as well, I
would be screwed.
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: 05 October 2018 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | 8
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On Heaven
The idea is that we all go to this other realm in the
clouds. But if you read what happens, we stay here on
earth, a new earth with new bodies.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 05 October 2018 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 9
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Thomas, you believe what you believe. As do I. Take this for the sincere comment is it meant to be, but it feels like you are too hard on yourself.
Not trying to change your faith, philosophy, mindset, etc. It does raise the question, though, of how God could have created beings who are less than worthy/imperfect.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15777
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| Posted: 05 October 2018 at 4:48pm | IP Logged | 10
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God can do anything, Robbie. He created tapeworms and ticks, the bubonic plague and necrotizing fasciitis. It took the Japanese to create the instant noodle, however, for which they have my enduring admiration.
[For the record, I am both an atheist and a noodle enthusiast].
Edited by Peter Martin on 05 October 2018 at 4:49pm
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 05 October 2018 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | 11
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That's a sentence you don't read every day. ;-)
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4495
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| Posted: 05 October 2018 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | 12
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If people are interested in studying the actual history of the collected writings of various times, places and cultures behind the various editions of what is called the Christian Bible they might understand some of these theological things. So much even to a believer is very transparently not divine but a creation of the church for a variety of reasons, so much not in the earliest extant scrolls/manuscripts/fragments.
The fact there are so many religions and Gods to me proves both a need for some kind of other/overlaying reality human beings have had through known history, and a legitimate basis for saying there is an actual fire possible from which such smoke as Jahweh and Atman and Odin and Amon Ra arose from. I hate the idea of reincarnation personally but there is evidence (smoke) for that being a possibility as well.
I don't know about super-powers (or miracles) though, that might be something just for the comic books. I can see why people would want such thing to be true but it can easily be not only self-serving (Oprah and her drawing wealth and success through positive vibes) but self-delusional, obviously.
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