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Topic: FANTASTIC BEASTS 2 - and casting backlash (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 29 September 2018 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 1  

Regarding SKYSCRAPER, contrary to the misguided belief that it was manufactured outrage from some mythical Extreme PC brigade, the controversy stemmed from an /actual/ amputee actress criticizing the Rock's casting.


Does she represent the opinion of all amputees? No.

Can people disagree with her opinion? Certainly.

Would it be wrong, especially as an able-bodied person, to dismiss and silence her criticism by calling it "manufactured outrage" or "PC-ness" or whatever? Yes.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 29 September 2018 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 2  

This is the problem with social media.  People were free to have uninformed opinions, get offended, and be outraged before.  However, they didn't have a worldwide platform to vent those views which in turn gave them the impression that anyone cared about those opinions.  If there's something you don't like about a movie or a television show, don't see/watch it.  But this nonsense that things I have a problem with shouldn't be made, or actors I have a problem with shouldn't be cast, is ridiculous.

And ignoring people isn't silencing them.  I have an absolute right to not care about the opinions of most of the world.  Especially about movies.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 29 September 2018 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 3  

As Aaron Sorkin so aptly put it, the internet has given everyone a turn at the mic, but not everyone has EARNED a turn at the mic.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 29 September 2018 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 4  

People were free to have uninformed opinions, get offended, and be outraged before.

-----

Wouldn't an amputee actress be considered an informed opinion with regard to the representation and casting of amputees?


Edited by Michael Roberts on 29 September 2018 at 12:33pm
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 29 September 2018 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | 5  

Wouldn't an amputee actress be considered an informed opinion with regard to the representation and casting of amputees?
------------------------------------------------------------ -----
Was she privy to the casting process for that film?  Was she up for the role?  Did it come down to her or Johnson, and they picked Johnson?

If the answer to those questions is 'no', as I'm reasonably certain it is, then the answer to your question is also 'no'.

Having a reason to care about something and having an informed opinion about something are not the same thing.

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Bill Collins
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Posted: 29 September 2018 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | 6  

I read that they`re making an Elephant Man tv series,
will they be casting a person with that condition, if
not will there be outrage?
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 29 September 2018 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | 7  

Wouldn't an amputee actress be considered an informed opinion with regard to the representation and casting of amputees?
------------------------------------------------------------ -----
Was she privy to the casting process for that film?  Was she up for the role?  Did it come down to her or Johnson, and they picked Johnson?

If the answer to those questions is 'no', as I'm reasonably certain it is, then the answer to your question is also 'no'.

------

Can you reread my question?
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 29 September 2018 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 8  

I read that they`re making an Elephant Man tv series, 
will they be casting a person with that condition, if 
not will there be outrage?

-----

Sure, there are some voices saying that. Can we stop labeling all criticisms as outrage?
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 29 September 2018 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 9  

Matt Reed,don`t take this the wrong way, but you come
across as needlessly antagonistic and rude at times.I`m
don`t think Greg deserved your vitriol.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 29 September 2018 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | 10  

Can you reread my question?
------------------------------------------
Can you reread my response?

The fact that someone is disabled does not mean, de facto, that they have done the work to become informed on all the issues involving people with disabilities.  The fact that someone is a disabled actor does not mean, de facto, that they have done the work to become informed on all of the issues involving disabled actors.

And, as I originally responded, even if she is informed on these issues in general (which she may or may not be), that does not mean that she has done the work to become informed on the particular situation, the casting of the lead role in this one particular movie, on which she is issuing an opinion.

I know it is now politically incorrect and elitist to even talk about some people having expertise which other people lack.  I know that we're supposed to pretend that years of work and education don't make a difference, and everyone's opinion is just as valid.  But it just isn't true.  

In particular, identifying as a member of a group does not automatically make your opinions about everything pertaining to that group 'informed'.  People of all social groupings are perfectly capable of being ignorant on any given topic.  And I'll go farther to say, because we are human and finite, all of us are uninformed about a great many more things than we are well-informed.


Edited by Steve De Young on 29 September 2018 at 2:42pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 29 September 2018 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 11  


 QUOTE:
The fact that someone is disabled does not mean, de facto, that they have done the work to become informed on all the issues involving people with disabilities.  The fact that someone is a disabled actor does not mean, de facto, that they have done the work to become informed on all of the issues involving disabled actors.

I don't think anyone, even someone who is disabled, would claim they are informed on ALL the issues involving people with disabilities.


 QUOTE:
And, as I originally responded, even if she is informed on these issues in general (which she may or may not be), that does not mean that she has done the work to become informed on the particular situation, the casting of the lead role in this one particular movie, on which she is issuing an opinion.

Would you agree or disagree that on average, an amputee would have more knowledge of the issues that amputees face and how to better represent that than a non-amputee?


 QUOTE:
I know it is now politically incorrect and elitist to even talk about some people having expertise which other people lack.  I know that we're supposed to pretend that years of work and education don't make a difference, and everyone's opinion is just as valid.  But it just isn't true.

On the contrary, I think we're discussing that an amputee's experience as an amputee does make a difference.


 QUOTE:
In particular, identifying as a member of a group does not automatically make your opinions about everything pertaining to that group 'informed'.

Yes, when you state things to such a ridiculous extreme, you can't argue that point. No one is going to be automatically informed about EVERYTHING pertaining to a group. But would you agree or disagree that an average woman would have more knowledge as to some of the issues pertaining to women than the average man?
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 29 September 2018 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | 12  

Would you agree or disagree that on average, an amputee would have more knowledge of the issues that amputees face and how to better represent that than a non-amputee?
---------------------------------
An amputee will undoubtedly know about specific the ins-and-outs of their own experience. From the article you linked to, Michael:

"Iíve had conversations, recently, with some high-level development executives in Hollywood, and when Iíve challenged them on casting, the response Iíve often gotten is that ďa movie wonít get made without a name above the title.Ē And I get it. That IS a concern: the bottom line."

I agree with her. That is, undoubtedly, what lies behind the Rock's casting.

She goes on to say that she felt erased by Gary Sinise only pretending to be an amputee in Forrest Gump. What would her alternative proposal be? An amputee wearing fake legs for the earlier, able-bodied scenes for Lieutenant Dan? That would be fair enough, but at the same time, wasn't Gary Sinise as well positioned as anyone for these scenes?
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