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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 07 September 2018 at 2:08pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Look at this:


I have never seen TAS, so can't have a view on this. I may have seen one episode, but only know the bare details.

EDIT: Wrestling link from wrestling topic accidentally pasted here. Link fixed. (Damn cut and paste, eh? Doing too many things at once!).


Edited by Robbie Parry on 07 September 2018 at 2:18pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 07 September 2018 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Look at this:

——

What do wrestling-themed scratcher lottery tickets have to do with Star Trek TAS?
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 07 September 2018 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Oops, copied and pasted wrong thing. Try this:


EDIT: Did I cut and paste the TAS link in the wrestling topic? Best go and check.


Edited by Robbie Parry on 07 September 2018 at 2:22pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 07 September 2018 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

This?


Anyway, I haven’t watched it since I was a kid, but it had the same actors and many of the same writers, so I’d lean toward the canon side. 
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 07 September 2018 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

A lot of the Animated episodes are sequels to TOS episodes.  A few have really goofy premises.  But I recently rewatched season 3 of TOS, so...compared to that, it’s fair to middlin’.
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Doug Centers
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Posted: 07 September 2018 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

My vote is "canon".
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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 07 September 2018 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

It's been both. First it was official, then Roddenberry basically disowned it, then over the years it has slowly crept back into the mix.

The cartoon itself is a real mixed bag but some of them were written by people who wrote for TOS and it does feature the voices of most of the cast, so a good argument could be made for it being considered canon.
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Ray Brady
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Posted: 07 September 2018 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Would this mean that 40 foot Spock clone is still roaming the galaxy somewhere? If so, any chance he can get his own spin-off series?
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 07 September 2018 at 9:11pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

For years, I was not happy by the dismissive attitude taken towards the animated series. It was, whatever it's weaknesses due to time constraints and Saturday morning animation, nevertheless still the work of Roddenberry, Fontana, and a number of other "serious" writers. To me, the addition of nearly the entire original cast meant that the series deserved a good deal more respect than it was receiving.

Roddenberry and co. could have simply collected a licensing fee and turned the show over to the usual type of Saturday Morning bastardization shows like The Brady Kids and The Partridge Family In Outer Space were receiving. Filmation wanted to give the crew a team of Wendy and Marvin style junior space cadets to train, an adorable alien sidekick, and a musical number or two every episode. Picture shots of Kirk on a space-guitar and Spock at the drums while Uhura plays keyboards and Chapel shakes a tambourine. An electrical space creature could chase them from side-to-side across the screen while the strains of the "Shock Spock Rock" played over the "action." 

In the end, the kids' pet space-creature Glimpo could point humorously at the keyboard over and over again until one of the kids snaps their finger and realizes they can talk to the electrical monster using MUSIC! The monster apologizes for scaring everyone and says he just wants to go back home to his family in the asteroid field the ship just passed through and everyone enjoys a hearty chuckle as Uhura tells everyone how important it is to communicate when problems arise! "I think Glimpo is only listening to his stomach!" one of the Space Cadets observes as the hungry comic relief alien eats Chapel's tambourine and takes a healthy bite out of Kirk's space guitar while everyone laughs. 

Hey, it could have happened, and it was only the efforts of Roddenberry, Fontana, and co. that prevented it. Their dedication to the integrity of Star Trek and the intelligence of their viewers deserves better than the off-hand, sneering disparagement the show's been given over the years. 

Fontana's "Yesteryear" was generally considered to be the only TAS episode that was canon, focusing as it did upon Spock's childhood. I myself have gone back and forth on certain episodes, such as "The Ambergris Element" in which Kirk and Spock are transformed into water-breathing mermen. Did I really want mermen mixed in with my Star Trek...?

Well, if you're a fan of TNG and Voyager, you're used to the crew being turned into reptiles, lemurs, spiders, and rutting salamander creatures... Suddenly the animated series looks positively restrained in comparison. If those episodes are in, why not include the giant pink tribble and Mudd's love potion? 

Ultimately, while I don't support the idea of a strict "canon" for entertainment franchises, I do think the animated series deserves a level of inclusion commensurate with the other shows. I may not like "Bem" or "The Magicks of Megas-Tu" all that much, but if they have to go, so does that time-freeze episode of TNG wherein Picard is reduced to a giggling idiot drawing happy faces in clouds of toxic gas. Fair's fair, guys.


Edited by Brian Hague on 07 September 2018 at 9:16pm
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 07 September 2018 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Ray Brady wrote: "Would this mean that 40 foot Spock clone is still roaming the galaxy somewhere? If so, any chance he can get his own spin-off series?"

Yes, Ray. You are in luck! Tune in to CBS All Access this fall as The Infinite Vulcan teams up with the giant clone from the 1977 Superman Spectacular and the Ameridroid in "Big Things!" 

"CBS. We're making giant strides. Just try to keep up with us..."

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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 08 September 2018 at 6:36am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Brian H. - DISCUSSION: Should all episodes of TOS and subsequent series be canon? 'Cause I can think of a few that should just be, "That never happened, please ignore it, nothing to see here."

Might make a good topic...
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Eric Smearman
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Posted: 09 September 2018 at 4:43am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I vote “canon”. Why not?
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Brandon Carter
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Posted: 10 September 2018 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Yes


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Bill Mimbu
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Posted: 10 September 2018 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Yeah, canon.

I did like "The Time Trap" episode where we see a brief glimpse of the Bonaventure trapped in the Delta Triangle.

Edited by Bill Mimbu on 10 September 2018 at 11:27am
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Peter Hicks
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Posted: 11 September 2018 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Writers who worked on TAS were outraged when Roddenberry announced the series was not cannon, except for Yesteryear. If that was the case the writers moaned, then why did Roddenberry subject us to just as many rewrites followed by his own script doctoring that they encountered on TOS?
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 23 September 2018 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Canon.

"How Sharper Than A Serpent's Tooth", "Yesteryear", and "The Slaver Weapon" are terrific.   Even "The Jihad" with it's madcap assemblage of characters is a fun watch, especially for Kirk blatantly hitting on the only female in the gang!
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William Costello
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Posted: 26 September 2018 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

I would say canon also. The Slaver Weapon was one of my favorite episodes and I remember waiting for Caldor Department Stores to put that episode (along with The Ambergris Element) on sale when the VHS episodes were released.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 26 September 2018 at 8:44pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Just started watching this on the CBS app. I like it. I say canon. 
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 26 September 2018 at 10:30pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

I asked our own Greg Kirkman to combine the "best of" Season 3 and TAS to come up with an imaginary Season 3.

He obliged and the results are somewhere in one of the epic TOS threads around here. Cherry picked that way, the best of this lesser Trek was more than grudgingly fun and enjoyable. So I would consider the best of TAS as suitable for "canon".

I am happiest with the idea that canon is whatever Paramount decides it is.

Edited by Mark Haslett on 26 September 2018 at 10:31pm
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 26 September 2018 at 11:56pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I asked our own Greg Kirkman to combine the "best of" Season 3 and TAS to come up with an imaginary Season 3. 
++++++

Hey, whoa, easy! Let’s not go and blame me when any newbies run off to watch those episodes thinking that any third season episode might be good! It’s more about degrees of bad!

That being said, I’ve been mulling this topic over for some time. Certain episodes and elements of TAS (such as the life-support belts and the proto-holodeck) don’t quite mesh with what comes either before or after, but the show has a lot going for it.

I caught a few episodes when I was very young, when the show was rerun on Nickelodeon in the mid-80s. I wasn’t until the 2006 DVD release that I actually sat down and watched the entire series. It was like finding money on the sidewalk. NEW STAR TREK! 

The show may not be quite up to the level of the live-action series, but it’s leaps and bounds ahead of the other kiddie fare from that era. The writing is often surprisingly adult. The animation, while extremely limited, faithfully reproduces the look and feel of TOS while also having an unlimited budget regarding aliens, planets, and spectacle. Almost the entire original cast provides their voice talents, and the characters are by and large on-model. I’d argue that the show perhaps comes closer to the feel of the first two seasons of TOS more often than the third season of TOS does.

So, certain elements are shaky, and some episodes are better than others, but can’t the same be said of TOS? I really don’t have a problem with TAS (or most of it, at least) being canon. Indeed, certain elements (“Yesteryear”, Robert April, etc.) have become positively enshrined by fandom. No reason to toss out the baby with the bathwater.


And, c’mon, people. Is a giant Spock clone really any worse than Spock directing McCoy in the surgical reinsertion of his own brain...during the procedure?

I don’t know about you, but, when watching some of the best and most dramatic moments during the TOS movies, I occasionally find myself thinking things like, “this is the same Jim Kirk who became Kirok”, or, “this is the same Spock who jammed with Dr. Sevrin and his followers”. 

Even bad canon is still canon. One’s personal head-canon is something else, of course. 

Personally, I continue to see TAS as a gift: More time to spend with beloved characters. 


Edited by Greg Kirkman on 26 September 2018 at 11:57pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 September 2018 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Personally, I continue to see TAS as a gift: More time to spend with beloved characters.

••

I certainly wished for that, but there was just too much off-model to allow it.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 27 September 2018 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I certainly wished for that, but there was just too much off-model to allow it.
++++++++

I see where you’re coming from, but beggars can’t be choosers. 

I just know that I had a visceral reaction when I popped in that first TAS DVD, and heard William Shatner, playing Captain James T. Kirk, speak the words “Captain’s log...” in a STAR TREK story I hadn’t seen before.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 September 2018 at 8:03am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

The animated series suffered, I felt, from much the same kind of mentality shift that vexed most of the comics. Somewhere in the writer's minds, a dial turned, and on an unconscious level they were thinking This has to be cartoony. Just as the comics had to be "comic-booky".
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 27 September 2018 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Exactly.

Could’ve been much worse, though. There’s that early concept art of each member of the crew with a junior partner. A show focused on our heroes training a bunch of kids to be Starfleet officers would have been too far removed from TOS and far too cartoony to work within the established lore.

What we actually got is a reasonable approximation of TOS and its format, although the writing and the overall feel are indeed more cartoony and less sophisticated than the live-action show. But not to the point where I would want to completely write TAS off. As noted, certain elements and moments work really well, while others don’t. Not unlike TOS proper.


Edited by Greg Kirkman on 27 September 2018 at 9:47am
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 27 September 2018 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

On a (slightly) related note, this is now on the shelves:


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