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Topic: Pencil/Inks Comparison (Silver Surfer One Shot cover) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: September 07 2018 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

On a side note: Good LORD is that border on the Buscema page clean.
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Doug Centers
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Posted: September 07 2018 at 9:19pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Nathan, I see your point. For original pieces there should be full disclosure (if known) of the process.
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: September 07 2018 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

 Nathan Greno wrote:
The original penciled cover still exists (Palmer light boxed the pencils onto a piece of Craftint board)... and the final inked cover is pretty heavily redrawn... seems to me the original art that was actually used for the cover SHOULDN'T be called a piece of "John Byrne original art" at auction. 

Right?

IMO, he traced a piece of John Byrne art and made significant changes to it.  So there's an original piece of JB art and a Tom Palmer piece based on JB art.
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: September 08 2018 at 1:46am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

You all know I love JB's art, otherwise I wouldn't be here.  But I think Palmer improved it.

JB's pencils don't look quite finished.  Palmer really clarified some things I find confusing in the pencils--the shadowy armpit area above the board, for instance.  Also, the Surfer doesn't look very metallic/silvery in the original.  And my first impression of the face is that it's the Phantom--perhaps that's why Palmer reworked it.

This is definitely a collaborative piece--two great artists working together to create a great cover.  You don't hire Palmer just to trace.  The only possible objectionable thing for me here is the addition of the stomach muscles and chest detail--BUT even that can be excused/explained.  If, after finishing everything else, the stomach and the chest looked too empty, I might expect an embellisher like Palmer to fill it in in some way.

I mean--look at that piece!  It's a beautiful cover!  Strong and iconic pose and concept by Byrne, wonderful finishing and fleshing out by Palmer.

Even so, I wouldn't mind seeing what Terry Austin might have done with it.


Edited by Eric Jansen on September 08 2018 at 1:49am
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Oliver Denker
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Posted: September 08 2018 at 2:03am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

@Eric Jansen
I see in Palmer's inking the exact opposite. 
No improvement at all.
Totally over rendered to a point, that I wouldn't recognize it as a John Byrne drawing, if I didn't know better.

In John's pencils the Surfer possesses grace and dynamics. Both is completely lost in Tom's inks. 


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Robert Bradley
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Posted: September 08 2018 at 7:11am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Palmer - like Klaus Janson, Joe Sinnott, Bob Layton or Kevin Nowlan - is a pretty heavy-handed inker, so I can see why people vary widely on his style.  Personally, I like his inking and love this piece.  Now, if I were the pencil artist I might have some issues with thier inking styles.

And, to me, just because Palmer didn't ink the original art doesn't change anything.  I don't see it as any different than how artist send scanned work in nowadays.

And keep in mind publishing is all about the finished product. The publisher ultimately isn't worried about a writer or artist's vision they're concerned with the final product.  And sometimes the editor's idea of how the product should turn out  causes for drastic (and sometimes ill-advised) changes.  (for instance the changes DC made to Jack Kirby's art in the 70's when he would draw superman in his style and they would have his face redrawn to stay on model.  Not all instances are this drastic, but the practice has been going on for years.


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Matt Hawes
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Posted: September 08 2018 at 7:21am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I like Tom Palmer's work on many things, but JB is my favorite artist and I really like his pencilled version of this cover more than the finished version. I bought that book because of JB more than anything back in the day, and as talented as Tom Palmer is, I felt then and now that his inks overwhelmed the pencils and muted JB's style.

 Frankly,  and this is not a slam at his ability, I never bought anything by Tom Palmer just because he was the artist. I have bought many comics by JB that I never would have bought as a fan just because he drew the book.
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: September 08 2018 at 7:32am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I enjoyed Tom Palmer's inks over JB on XMHY. I'd really like to see that Silver Surfer cover inked by someone else.
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: September 08 2018 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

 Dave Kopperman wrote:
Good LORD is that border on the Buscema page clean

RIGHT?! Even the corners are tiny little points with no rounding. Some serious attention to detail.
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Steve Gumm
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Posted: September 08 2018 at 8:24am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Man those pencils are sooo darn good, I haven't seen them before they are a real treat to see!
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Jason K Fulton
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Posted: September 08 2018 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I wouldn't recognize the inked cover as a JB page without the signature.

The penciled version stands out as 100% JB. 

There's always been something ethereal and lithe about a Byrne Silver Surfer (looking thru some random issues this morning, I can't find an instance of defined abs). The inked version loses that.

For purchasing purposes, I wouldn't consider the inked version a JB piece - but I'm glad to know someone has preserved the pencils.
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Rick Senger
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Posted: September 08 2018 at 11:41am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

John's pencils on this are gorgeous and have more subtle shade gradations than I typically see in his work but I get the conundrum Palmer faced in inking it.  Like Gene Colan, the pencils here feature a lot of slightly differing shades which are a bitch to capture in ink, a medium much less forgiving than pencils in translating basic weight variations (a line is either there or it isn't.)  That said, while Palmer is one of my all-time favorite inkers (and for me by far the best Colan inker), I've never been a fan of his inks on this job.


Edited by Rick Senger on September 08 2018 at 11:44am
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