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Topic: Pencil/Inks Comparison (Silver Surfer One Shot cover) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 08 September 2018 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I definitely prefer the Surfer's face in the original pencils and just that whole piece in general. It's gorgeous. The finished product made for a great cover too but, man, those pencils are superb. 
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 08 September 2018 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I quite like the changes that Palmer made to the right leg (i.e. back) leg, but apart from that, I find the changes tend to diminish rather than add, particularly the face, the lighting (the dramatically-lit torso going to those abs most of all), and the cosmic swirl behind. Sad that we lost those beautifully smoothly curves in the background.

Edited by Peter Martin on 08 September 2018 at 2:26pm
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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 08 September 2018 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Palmer tends to have a pretty heavy handed style and usually overwhelms the pencils on most of the projects he works on. Sometimes his style fits well with the penciller (inking Gene Colan comes to mind), but I find he tends to dominate the work. He has worked with some excellent pencilers like Byrne, Colan, Buscema and Epting and manages to make them all look like they were drawn by the same person. 

I think a successful inker is one who is able to embellish the penciled art and add a touch of their own style but doesn't overwhelm the piece. Their job is to enhance not take over and Palmer too often falls into that trap of making it his own.
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Joel Biske
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Posted: 13 September 2018 at 10:54am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Man Nathan, thanks for posting this!! Never saw the original pencils.


Now I want whoever owns the pencil original to post a nice high res scan of them so we can all enjoy it....
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Joel Biske
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Posted: 13 September 2018 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

From an inking standpoint, I'd say that I really prefer the movement JB had in the background. These are pretty finished pencils and some of Palmer's additions are, to me, questionable. (And I LOVE Palmer's inking)

When I see him as inker, I expect a significant contribution, but when looking at these pencils, I wonder why some of these decisions were made.

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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 13 September 2018 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Joel: I wonder why some of these decisions were made.

----

The small changes confuse me most. For example, SS's screen right leg was completely redrawn. Look at where the knee lines up with the surfboard on both drawings... why change that? 
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 14 September 2018 at 9:31am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

The lines on the surfboard jump out to me as another "Huh? Why redraw that?'

There are so many changes done to something I wouldn't want to change at all
so every detail brings its own mystery.

I can only suppose Mr. Palmer felt or was told that it needed a lot of fixes.
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Joe Boster
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Posted: 14 September 2018 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Also, keep in mind that this was inked in to published on 1982's printing presses. The final colored page looks amazing! (tho I it looks even less like JB)  But some things might have been approached from that sort of perspective.
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 15 September 2018 at 1:01am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Ive seen this cover many times.

I had no idea this was a John Byrne pencilled piece.
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Tim O'Neill
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Posted: 15 September 2018 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 10 post reply



Palmer knew it was a cover image, so maybe there was a sense by him or the editors to make it Grand.  So they spilled a lot of ink on it!

The only good thing about this instance is that the penciled art gets some attention.  The pencilled piece is more cosmic and grand than the inked piece to me!



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Brian Miller
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Posted: 15 September 2018 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

This is the comic that really made me not like Palmerís inks over JB pencils. Donít like them here and donít like them on XMHY. 
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Charles Nelson
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Posted: 15 September 2018 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

The right arm and hand are the only parts that still really look like JB, once you know they are his pencils. Like many of you, it was years before I knew this was JB and I bought it new. The "re-working" of the face was inscrutable, to me.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 16 September 2018 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I like Tom Palmer's inking but I'd have liked to have seen him adding what he is best at without subtracting from the pencils in any way. Here he has subtracted and what he's put in in it's place (head, torso, background) is not as good and not John Byrne... he has added legitimately to the asteroid/rock and some grey tone shading which enhances, but overall you see loss a bit more than gain. Usually these excessive changes are at editorial command but I don't know here... I don't see the purpose at all. :^(

Luckily we still have both, and I've also seen the first page inside in pencil and some other bits which some fanzine printed.

Would they 'correct' Moebius on Silver Surfer like this? If you want John Byrne's Silver Surfer inked by Tom Palmer, you want John Byrne there as fully as possible, not Byrne 'corrected' like that one Iron Fist with the new X-Men... that was just a weird thing to see.


Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 16 September 2018 at 11:06am
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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 17 September 2018 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Brian Miller: This is the comic that really made me not like Palmerís inks over JB pencils. Donít like them here and donít like them on XMHY

ó

Fully agree 
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 17 September 2018 at 10:04am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

I respect Tom Palmer's art, and the team of John Buscema and Palmer was one if the greats, but I don't feel Palmer's inks suit JB's work. There is a clash in styles. I get why JB wanted Palmer's inks on X-MEN: THE HIDDEN YEARS, the series being an extension of the Neal Adams and Tom Palmer issues. Still, while Palmer's art is undoubtedly skilled and awesome in its own right, for me the mix with JB's pencils don't work. I don't want diluted JB art.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 17 September 2018 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Yeah, I feel a similar way to Matt. I used to very much enjoy Palmer's inks over John Buscema in the Avengers and I felt the faces of the characters retained that Buscema look, but for some reason Palmer's inks overpower JB's pencils. First time I saw the pairing was in Starbrand and I could barely recognise JB's style under Palmer's inks.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 17 September 2018 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Oh yeah. I forgot about STARBRAND. Donít like them there, either. 

That said, I fully agree with Matt H. I love Palmer over Buscema and Adams. 
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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 17 September 2018 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Thought it would be fun to compare/discuss another set of pencils/inks...



(Ignore the "BEFORE" in the corner... it was on the scan I found)

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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 17 September 2018 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Full marks to Mr. Austin on the Amazon cover... everything is there and then some, and he's followed the suggestion about lightning as well! The only thing that sometimes I notice with Austin is he uses the same line thicknesses on things that might benefit from being different. Generally you want something on the side away from a light source to be heavier, and closer to be lighter, and same with foreground/background. With lightning as the lighting in the background this isn't going to be an issue on this particular piece though. I understand he started out doing backgrounds with Dick Giordano or somesuch where you would be able to do the Chic Stone fine line uniformly not to detract from the main action in front. Anyway, it's always been something with Terry Austin that could make me a little itchy, the line thicknesses being inappropriate, but this cover is gorgeous all around (and was the first 'Amalgam' title I wanted and got)!


Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 17 September 2018 at 4:04pm
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 17 September 2018 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Love it
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 17 September 2018 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Now I want to see Terry inks on that Surfer cover!
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 17 September 2018 at 9:40pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Interesting that Rebecca mentions Austin's lack of line variance and the cape--where JB seems to ask for brush "spikes"--is the one place Austin changes things, instead doing single line weight cross lines.  To use the same pen thickness, he makes more work for himself.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 18 September 2018 at 7:48am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Good heavens! I loved that art, I loved that book, and it was so well written that I have thought it was going to be part of the regular series!

Shucks, I miss THAT Wonder Woman!
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 18 September 2018 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Terry became one of comicdom's most noteworthy inkers for a reason. The AMAZON cover is a perfect example to me of how an inker can bring something to the pencil art without overpowering it. I can tell it's JB's art with no problem, yet it also has that Austin touch.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 18 September 2018 at 9:09am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Man, I would not have wanted to ink all those rain lines! I doff my hat to the skill and hard work involved. Cool pencils and a nice inking job. Terry Austin isn't my favourite inker for JB (that honour might just have to go to JB himself), but total respect for the skill on display here.
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