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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 1:00am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Actually, those 20 something and 30 something fans Captain Marvel was Monica and Genis-Vell. Hell, even EVS said in one of his Comics Gate rants videos that they should have used Monica instead of Carol.

óó

I believe that they cared about Monica about as much as they cared about Battle Angel Alita before their idiotic protest. Which is not at all. And Genis-Vell? As someone who owns and loves that entire run, my response is BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA. No, they didnít give a shit about Genis-Vellóor Mar-Vell for that matteróuntil they wanted to complain. Itís the comic book equivalent of ďItís about ethics in journalism.Ē
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 1:20am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I believe that they cared about Monica about as much as they cared about Battle Angel Alita before their idiotic protest. Which is not at all. And Genis-Vell? As someone who owns and loves that entire run, my response is BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA. No, they didnít give a shit about Genis-Vellóor Mar-Vell for that matteróuntil they wanted to complain. Itís the comic book equivalent of ďItís about ethics in journalism.Ē

_________________________________


It's not about whether or not they really cared about those characters or not, it's about who was Captain Marvel when they started reading comics. I don't really care about Nick Fury, but my Nick Fury is the original white version that was created by Lee and Kirby.
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 1:26am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Doug>>Captain Marvel did turn back some bombs in orbit, but this just begged the question: thatís all the Kree traveled across the galaxy with???<<

Scale-wise, it seemed in keeping with the sort of things seen in the (absurdist) Battle for Xandar in GotG.  There's no defending any of that as realistic, but then realism in fiction is an artistic choice too. There seems to be a conscious attempt to keep all the sci-fi weapons of a relatable human scale, even when they are absurdly big like those bombs.


Joe>>

I think the audience is thinking more kindly of the movie than they otherwise would have. Because its a Marvel movie. Because it has socially progressive themes. Because the lead actress is a sincere (but clumsy) feminist. <<

Exploitation movies certainly happen, and genre coat-tailing does happen, but if it were possible to trick an audience into making a mega blockbuster simply by having "progressive themes", they'd do it all the time. 

As a fan, I've learned to appreciate the value of even movies I don't like or am not interested in making money.  Box office failures are bad for the industry.
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 1:29am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

As to which Captain Marvel to use, if you were Marvel Studios/Comics, do you want to flog product from the 60's, or the one you are trying to sell now?

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 1:33am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

It's not about whether or not they really cared about those characters or not, it's about who was Captain Marvel when they started reading comics. I don't really care about Nick Fury, but my Nick Fury is the original white version that was created by Lee and Kirby.

óó

No. As I said, I collected the Peter David run, so I donít need to be told who was Captain Marvel when Millennials started reading comics. That is not what Iím talking about.

Iím talking about people who didnít give a shit about Captain Marvel, couldnít name either Genis-Vell or Mar-Vell, or thought that the currently named Shazam character was a Marvel character. Because I had conversations with plenty of those guys who had knee jerk reaction to Carol changing from Ms. Marvel to Captain Marvel and insisted Captain Marvel was /supposed/ to be a dude, but didnít know anything beyond that.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 1:38am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Doug>>Captain Marvel did turn back some bombs in orbit, but this just begged the question: thatís all the Kree traveled across the galaxy with???<<  

Scale-wise, it seemed in keeping with the sort of things seen in the (absurdist) Battle for Xandar in GotG.  There's no defending any of that as realistic, but then realism in fiction is an artistic choice too. There seems to be a conscious attempt to keep all the sci-fi weapons of a relatable human scale, even when they are absurdly big like those bombs. 

óóó

Was there anything that indicated that they had dropped all their bombs? I thought they had just dropped a wave of bombs, sent some fighters to take down Carol before continuing, then turned tail after they failed.
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 2:58am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Michael>>

Was there anything that indicated that they had dropped all their bombs? I thought they had just dropped a wave of bombs, sent some fighters to take down Carol before continuing, then turned tail after they failed.<<

I don't recall anybody saying anything to that effect, but Ronan's interest in Carol seemed to outweigh any displeasure he might have felt at failing in the mission.  Those ships are *huge* so personally I would not assume that's all they were packing.
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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 4:45am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

those guys who had knee jerk reaction to Carol changing from Ms. Marvel to Captain Marvel and insisted Captain Marvel was /supposed/ to be a dude, but didnít know anything beyond that.

Those guys are probably also mad that they put Carol in pants. Personally, Cockrum's costume is fantastic but the Good Girl artists of the last 2 decades decided she was wearing a thong when they drew Ms. Marvel.
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John Popa
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 7:17am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I remember when Kurt Busiek relaunched "Avengers" and put Carol back in as Warbird, I asked him at a con why he just didn't call her Captain Marvel. His answer was basically that there was another version running around (I forget if he meant Genis or Monica Rambeau) and, well, he liked the name he picked.

Still, the notion that Carol could/should be Captain Marvel isn't especially new. Even though I wasn't reading Marvel books when it happened, it always seemed inevitable to some degree, at least to me.
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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 10 post reply


 QUOTE:
Hell, even EVS said in one of his Comics Gate rants videos that
they should have used Monica instead of Carol.


...and if they had gone with Monica, EVS and his cronies wouldíve
pitched the same fit and said Marvel shouldíve at least used Carol, if
they werenít going to use Mar-Vell. Itís all just window dressing to hide
their underlying misogyny
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Doug Jones
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Michael: Was there anything that indicated that they had dropped all their bombs? I thought they had just dropped a wave of bombs, sent some fighters to take down Carol before continuing, then turned tail after they failed.

--
 
The way I phrased the question was misleading. The issue for me was less about the bombs themselves or how many/how big etc, and more that as a showcase action sequence, I didn't think it was creatively on par with with Marvel's best, and I believe they left better options on the table. Had this movie been released eight or nine years ago, I'd likely have thought different. In 2019? Meh. 


Edited by Doug Jones on 14 March 2019 at 8:16am
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 9:26am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

An all out showdown with Ronan and a Kree Sentry or two would have made for a great finale.  but its pretty clear that some of the best ideas to showcase CM are being saved for Endgame and her inevitable sequels.

I think we have barely scratched the surface of this character.  And nobody does the long game better than the MCU.  

 I have no doubt the best is yet to come.  
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 10:12am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Going to see it again tomorrow night with the family. Looking forward to it. 
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Apparently thereís outrage because Carol and Maria werenít lesbian lovers. 
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply


 QUOTE:
I hope she won't get her powers from Carol. Monica's powers shouldn't
come from Carol. I don't like the idea of the first female Captain Marvel (who is
a Black woman) to get her powers from the 2nd female Captain Marvel (who is
a white woman). Monica should stand on her own and acquire her powers on
her own and not depend on a "white savior" character to acquire her powers.


As I said... "Ugh."

Let's keep our fingers crossed.
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

No. As I said, I collected the Peter David run, so I donít need to be told who was Captain Marvel when Millennials started reading comics. That is not what Iím talking about.

Iím talking about people who didnít give a shit about Captain Marvel, couldnít name either Genis-Vell or Mar-Vell, or thought that the currently named Shazam character was a Marvel character. Because I had conversations with plenty of those guys who had knee jerk reaction to Carol changing from Ms. Marvel to Captain Marvel and insisted Captain Marvel was /supposed/ to be a dude, but didnít know anything beyond that.

__________________________________


So in other words, those idiots don't know what the hell they are talking about.
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Those guys are probably also mad that they put Carol in pants. Personally, Cockrum's costume is fantastic but the Good Girl artists of the last 2 decades decided she was wearing a thong when they drew Ms. Marvel.

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IMO, they should have just added pants to the Cockrum costume.
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 14 March 2019 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

...and if they had gone with Monica, EVS and his cronies wouldíve
pitched the same fit and said Marvel shouldíve at least used Carol, if
they werenít going to use Mar-Vell. Itís all just window dressing to hide
their underlying misogyny

___________________________


If Monica was written like Carol has been written over the last several years, I'm pretty sure that they would have complained.
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Ronald Joseph
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Posted: 15 March 2019 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

...and if they had gone with Monica, EVS and his cronies wouldíve 
pitched the same fit and said Marvel shouldíve at least used Carol, if they werenít going to use Mar-Vell. Itís all just window dressing to hide their underlying misogyny

Come on, "Uncle Ethan" and his cronies sound like Very Fine People. 


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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 15 March 2019 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply


I remember when Kurt Busiek relaunched "Avengers" and put Carol back in as Warbird, I asked him at a con why he just didn't call her Captain Marvel. His answer was basically that there was another version running around (I forget if he meant Genis or Monica Rambeau) and, well, he liked the name he picked.

***

I still don't get why she couldn't just be "Ms. Marvel" again.

"Warbird" is one of those supervillain names that were people for some reason decided were good superhero names (see also: War Machine).

And I yes, I do love the Busiek-Perez run on AVENGERS. But giving Carol that code-name -- that I hated. 
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Daniel Gillotte
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Posted: 15 March 2019 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Saw it last night. I loved all the acting. As I've seen said in some reviews it's kind of a buddy cop film with Nick Fury and Carol Danvers and it's really good at that level.

I felt like she is kind of overpowered and that concerns me. Has she always been Marvel's Superman?

But, I loved the woman-power stuff a TON and loved the stuff with the Rambeaus and while I don't like the idea of ALL the Skrulls being misunderstood refugees I found it interesting enough and the acting and character of the head skrull was REALLY good.

Was glad to take my 13 year old daughter, who has loved all the marvel movies, and this one was no different. If she takes a bot of Carol's grit as a role model, I'd be delighted.
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 15 March 2019 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I felt like she is kind of overpowered and that concerns me. Has she always been Marvel's Superman?

___________________________


Nope. She first became over powered back in the 80's when she became Binary back during Claremont and Cockrum's Uncanny X-Men run. Her power levels were reduced during the Busiek and Perez Avengers run. She went back up to her Binary power levels several years ago. While I did like her new design and new powers as Binary, I hought that she was way over powered. I liked the power level that she was at during the Busiek/Perez Avengers run which was a happy medium between her original Ms Marvel power levels and her Binary power levels.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 16 March 2019 at 2:07am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

 Rick Whiting wrote:
Matt, I think that a lot of the hate for this movie before and after it's release is partly due to the hate many fans feel about how the character is currently written in the comics (which has amp up the whole "girl power" message to a ridiculously preachy level and Carol being written as an over powered Mary Sue) and because of some of the comments that Brie Larson has made. A lot of the haters thought that this movie was going to be an overly preachy "girl power" and "woman empowerment" message. And while there was definitely some "girl power"/"women empowerment" messages in this film, it was nowhere near as overtly preachy as it has been in the comics over the last several years.

First off, I don't read modern day comics.  Full stop.  As such, I don't give two shits and a couple of fucks what some douche claims about "power levels" and "girl power".   As to the Mary Sue aspect, that's been debated in several threads here and about and, for the most part, I find the whole notion absolutely silly and completely disingenuous.  

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, to the movie: the haters hated before they saw a second of film and, in fact, started their hate-filled screeds at the mere mention of a female driven action film by Marvel. It was, to them, tantamount to women taking over the building and it scared the fuck out of them.  Plain and simple.  "Jesus Christ. A woman. As strong as a man.  Seriously.  Un-fucking-believable".  If they are afraid of some comic books that a thousand people read and maybe three of them comment about on obscure comic forums, fine.  Cool.  Whatever.  That's their problem, not mine.  

re: Brie Larson. Her request to have more women (::gasp!!!::) interview her instead of just white males has been wildly overplayed.  If that's actually an issue for you, then that's a you problem not hers.   I applaud her request and see absolutely no problem with it. 

Finally, thank you (sarcastically) for allowing a film to actually have a message of female empowerment.  That it wasn't anywhere  "near as overtly preachy" as some had feared is a blessing.  Dear god if we actually had a film touting women in the same manner films have touted men for nearly a century!
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Ronald Joseph
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Posted: 16 March 2019 at 7:28am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Dammit, Matt, I wish the JBF had "like" buttons! 
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 16 March 2019 at 9:01am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Sign me up, Ronald. On another note, I can't help but think all the "Thor is stronger than Captain Marvel" articles I run across are written to placate the collective male ego.
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