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Wilson Mui
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

What an amazing run.

I think it is probably the right time to end the show.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I lasted all of ten minutes into the first episode. It gave me a convention headache!!
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Robert Bradley
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

They could have ended the show a couple of seasons ago and I would have been fine with it.

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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I gave up on it years ago when it got off track. It was supposed to be about a bunch of hapless nerds trying to navigate their social lives. Then everyone got engaged/married/etc. and the show lost that vital element.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 9:39pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Conversely, I never had any affinity for the original characters. It was only when the girlfriends showed up that I found I could enjoy episodes of the program.

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Matt Reed
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 10:33pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Loved the series for the longest time.  That said?  The last couple of seasons have definitely felt "less than".  Where I got five or six good laughs in per episode, lately it's been one if I'm lucky and most often none. 

I've stayed with it as long as I have on the strength of the characters, but it's time.  Was considering dropping it this year, but since it's the last I'm pot committed to see it through.  Did and felt the same way with FRIENDS.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 10:38pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

 Christopher Frost wrote:
Then everyone got engaged/married/etc. and the show lost that vital element.

I've heard this leveled against the series and for the life of me I don't understand it.  The show started with leads well into their 20s.  Was the audience expectation really that they would go the entire length of the series without finding love or getting married?  The nerdiest of the nerds I knew in both high school and college (whose ranks I am a part of) were married within a decade after graduation.  The series was never about them not finding love, but (in part) about finding the right love.  Now that they're nearly 40, was their inability to navigate that aspect of life really a "vital element"?  I'd say no.  It would have been incredibly sad to see four grown men and friends unable to find love, romance or a mate after 12 years (much of which passed in real time) just to service a premise that quickly became stale.  
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Petter Myhr Ness
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 1:08am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I agree with Matt here. The relationships also added a lot of good comedy, because the girlfriends themselves were funny. However, I did give up on the show around season 8. I just didn't find it as funny as a whole anymore. But that's OK - it had a very good run. 
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 4:59am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Iím with Reed. 

YOUNG SHELDON has pretty much replaced it in the laughs per episode category. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 7:12am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

The last season of FRIENDS was the one during which I became "unfaithful". It was running against TRU CALLING, and I was watching that.
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I still like and watch the show, but not terribly upset that it's done. 12 seasons is a good run. 

I agree with Miller. YOUNG SHELDON is really funny. I had my doubts when I first heard about it, but it's quite good. Great casting, especially Sheldon's mother. My first impression is that it seemed the actress must have done some serious research on Laurie Metcalf. Turns out this was kinda true. She's her daughter. 


Edited by Brian Rhodes on 23 August 2018 at 10:29am
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Rick Senger
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I still watch and enjoy the show but 12 years is a good time to wrap up.  Lorre still has Young Sheldon and Mom so he's still busy and probably realized it's better to leave before there's nothing left.


Edited by Rick Senger on 23 August 2018 at 11:16am
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 11:21am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

When the movie Fargo came out, everyone I knew, including me, loved it.  Except my brother-in-law.  My brother-in-law grew up in northern Minnesota.  He hated it with a passion.  When I got him to tell me why, it was because he felt like the movie was laughing at him, not with him, and encouraging other people to do the same.

I had that same experience the time I tried to watch Big Bang Theory, which happened to be an episode where they went to a comic store.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Born and raised in Minnesota and I love FARGO.  Different strokes.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

People tend to assume that I would like TBBT, which I do not.

Itís been suggested that I might be bothered because I feel it is mocking nerd and geek culture, but I donít think thatís the issue. Itís more that, at least whenever Iíve tried to watch the show, the writing comes across as someoneís stereotypical ideas of what nerds and geeks are like. 

Contrast that with a show like COMMUNITY that tread some of the same ground, but felt like it was written by people who knew what they were writing about. 
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Harold Walls
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I was out with a friend and he got complimented on his Green Lantern shirt.  He asked the person if they knew what it was from.  The answer was "Yes, that is Sheldon's shirt from The Big Bang Theory"
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Michael, I've seen episodes of TBBT where the writing staff were definitely on their game and knew exactly what they were talking about and others that could not have been more club-footed and tone-deaf in their approach. My guess is that the people making the final decisions about what to air are the ones without a clue, unable to differentiate between clever comments on fandom and simple babbling. 

I used to hang out with a couple who simply adored the show, so I've seen more of it than I would have liked, but I will say that I have enjoyed a number of episodes while being gobsmacked by the stupidity of others. 

While I definitely appreciate COMMUNITY more, it rolled a few gutterballs here and there as well.

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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

A couple of points here...

1) Nobody and I mean nobody, including the people making the show, expected it to last 12 years so there was certainly no long range plan in place for the characters.

2) Matt, your not understanding the argument about the evolution of the characters is a little surprising given how prevalent the attitude of resistance to change is on this forum. In a great many threads we have seen a number of variations on the whole "Peter & MJ should never have gotten married, etc." discussions. The general consensus around these parts seems to be one of supporting the illusion of change and not actual change so why wouldn't that attitude extend to a tv show? If we have an expectation that the characters should remain somewhat static despite the passage of time in comics, does that not also hold true for other mediums?

So my point stands, the show has evolved away from the premise it was built upon. Howard was a pervert and a bit of a creep, now he's a family man. Raj was completely unable to talk to women and he's overcome that barrier. Sheldon was the fussbudget who couldn't tolerate change and could barely handle human interaction and now he's getting married. The evolution of Leonard/Penny can be overlooked as his pursuit of her was one of the main plotlines in the early seasons. The characters have changed, the circumstances have changed and the show has lost the elements that made it amusing in the first place. It's gone from being The Golden Girls and become The Golden Palace.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

If we have an expectation that the characters should remain somewhat static despite the passage of time in comics, does that not also hold true for other mediums?

------

Unlike comics, characters on television age with their actors.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 8:13am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I'll take this one in chunks...


 QUOTE:
1) Nobody and I mean nobody, including the people making the show, expected it to last 12 years so there was certainly no long range plan in place for the characters.

Although no showrunner expects their series to set a record for longest running multicam situational comedy, they all believe that their series will last for longer than a season.  That's why they think down the line, often several seasons.  It's part of their pitch to the network, the cable channel or the streaming service.  Companies want to know your vision for the series, not just for the first 10 or 23 episodes.


 QUOTE:
2) Matt, your not understanding the argument about the evolution of the characters is a little surprising given how prevalent the attitude of resistance to change is on this forum.

I understand the argument, I just don't get it.  Despite the "prevalent" attitude of the board (which often discusses change re: comic books as a printed medium), here we're talking about television.  Two decidedly different beasts. 


 QUOTE:
In a great many threads we have seen a number of variations on the whole "Peter & MJ should never have gotten married, etc." discussions. The general consensus around these parts seems to be one of supporting the illusion of change and not actual change so why wouldn't that attitude extend to a tv show?

Why would it?  As Michael has noted, actors actually age.  Comic book characters do not.  

Television has changed over the last two decades.  I generally put it around the time that NYPD BLUE premiered.  That series gave us quick cuts influenced by MTV and multiple storylines in a form we'd never really seen before even though, at it's heart, it's a cop show.  But characters changed, grew, moved on and died.  No illusion of change, but actual change.  Flash forward a decade later and we have THE SOPRANOS, THE WIRE, BREAKING BAD and THE GOOD WIFE.  On the comedy side we've got COMMUNITY, PARKS AND RECREATION, BROOKLYN NINE-NINE and THE OFFICE.  With the latter British version, the characters grew and changed in 12 episodes and a Christmas special.

Sure.  You can still have your NCIS, your CSI, your LAW AND ORDER: SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT, procedural series where the characters hardly evolve at all over the course of decades, but those series are becoming less of a focus as audiences discover that they're hard to binge given the "sameness" nature baked into to their particular DNA.  


 QUOTE:
If we have an expectation that the characters should remain somewhat static despite the passage of time in comics, does that not also hold true for other mediums?

I'm not quite sure why the expectation of no change should be a steadfast rule for all medium regardless of outside influences like actors aging, current audience expectations and the like.  Specific to THE BIG BANG THEORY, the series had to evolve simply because it was a hit.  The execs have gone on record as saying that after realizing they were in it for the long haul, they knew they couldn't continue to have four guys perpetually single despite how intelligent they are, always unable to find lasting companionship.  Even then, I'd argue that the same premise exists; nerdy guys trying to navigate work, love or lack thereof, and their own friendship to one another.  Howard can still be creepy, just mitigated by his marriage.  Rog still hasn't found a lasting relationship even though he can now speak to women.  Sheldon is still the same lovingly annoying character he was in Season 1 with an added layer of heart.  Leonard is still the same frustrated guy who is exasperated by his best friend and often bewildered by his wife.  And Penny has gotten smarter as a product of constantly hanging around with the guys, but also has shown her own moxie by trying to improve her situation.  That said, she also often shows that in many ways she's smarter than the boys in situations they barely comprehend just as she did from the pilot forward.  So as much as one might complain that the series "grew" its characters, it's done so in an incredibly slow and incremental way while still retaining their essential characteristics.  Personally?  I don't think marriage has really changed the premise of the series at all.  I actually think their relationships have heightened it.  Obviously YMMV.
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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 9:25am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Seinfeld is a great example of a hit show that lasted far longer than expected and managed to still have the characters be basically the same as they were when the show started.

Other popular culture characters like Bond have an accepted reset button at the end of their adventures with little growth or change.

At the end of the day, it's about putting the toys back in the box the same way you found them.

As you said, YMMV, but I know I'm not the only one who feels the show isn't what it used to be.
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Phil Geiger
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 10:16am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Great show and I still enjoy it. That said, after 12 seasons, I can say goodbye to it. I fully agree with what Matt said about the evolution of the show and the characters today vs. season 1. TV characters can grow and change and still retain their core personalities. Just like real people. I'm looking forward to the final season.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 10:35am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

 Christopher Frost wrote:
At the end of the day, it's about putting the toys back in the box the same way you found them.

Untrue with television.  The producers of TBBT didn't "find" their characters.  They didn't hop onto a series that was already in existence and then left to turn over the reigns to another creative team.  They created the characters and the situation.  The box, such as it is, is their own creation.  Again, you can't compare it to comic books.  


 QUOTE:
I know I'm not the only one who feels the show isn't what it used to be.

You're not.  I said as much in my own reply as have others in this thread.  The difference is that where you think it's fundamentally changed from inception to 12 years later, I do not.  I just don't think it's that funny anymore and slow growth, for me, has nothing to do with it.
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 10:45am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

The general consensus around these parts seems to be one of supporting the illusion of change and not actual change so why wouldn't that attitude extend to a tv show? If we have an expectation that the characters should remain somewhat static despite the passage of time in comics, does that not also hold true for other mediums?

Not necessarily. Though, it also depends on the show.  As noted, actors age. So, it's hard to maintain, in this case, the illusion of no actual change when it's happening before our eyes. 

M*A*S*H tried to cram 11 years of show into 3 years worth of war. And really, not much changed the first 3 seasons. But, over the course of its run beyond that, with actors leaving and new ones coming on board, and the very nature of the show changing (from a wacky, counter-culture dark comedy to a less-wacky, politically correct serio-comedy), there was lots of change, in both the appearance of the actors and the personalities of their characters. Hawkeye went from a boozy womanizer to a (somewhat) sober, lovable, best-girlfriend kind of guy. Margaret was an opportunistic man-hopper who later became an independent, 80's woman (in the 1950's!). Charles became a humanitarian. Radar grew up...and left. Trapper left. Frank left. Henry died. Henry...DIED!  No "illusion of change", there. I suppose, in this case, one could attribute so much change - and aging - in what was, in the story, a relatively short span of time, to the War itself. 

Or you could do an animated show and have it run almost 30 years and have the foresight to cast grown women as the voices of a perpetually young boy and girl. The Simpsons stay the same age, even if their flashback scale slides somewhat. 



Edited by Brian Rhodes on 24 August 2018 at 12:42pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Seinfeld is a great example of a hit show that lasted far longer than expected and managed to still have the characters be basically the same as they were when the show started.

-----

I'd argue this. Jerry basically remains the same throughout the series, but George, Elaine, and Kramer become more extreme versions of themselves as the series progresses. And Jerry's lack of growth is presented as a character flaw by the series' end.
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