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Olav Bakken
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Posted: 08 August 2018 at 8:18am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Now when it seems like nothing can stop the deal between Disney and Fox, along with the rights to Fantastic Four and X-Men, then perhaps it is finally the end of the Fox versions of these titles.

I have never really liked any of these movies. Characters are used only once before being disposed, and have few if any similarities with who they are supposed to be.

Not really surprising, since Singer and others have never bothered about comics and had never read the source material.

The concept of the X-Men according to Fox; in a world where the only superhumans are mutants who live in hiding, there are good mutants and bad mutants. Normal humans hates all mutants. The good mutants goes to a school called Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters, where they are either students or teachers. Some guy named Magneto is the leader of the bad mutants.

"This is how the characters look, these are their names, and these are their powers. And forget all about the comics." (Regarding their costumes, in X-Men: Days of Future Past, they looks like something out of the TV-show The Tribe.)

And call it nitpicking, but I really didn't enjoy how it was executed. Kitty Pryde's powers were shown by having her randomly run through a door while Wolverine is looking at with a confused look.
The same with the small children playing ball; "hey, using powers is cheating". Or the obese guy transforming into a skinny guy to fit between the chairs.
And for some reason it really disliked the scene where all the kids were staring through the window when the Blackbird took off.

It all feel forced. Demonstrating a power should feel more organic, not randomly added to a scene in an attempt to impress the audience. And the movies presents them like they are the ones who invented the wheel, and the biggest thing since sliced bread. Example; "This is James Madrox, also called Multiple Man. He is here because he robbed three banks. SIMULTANEOUSLEY!!!"

Another clumsy example; Beast's blue furry hand turned normal when it got close to Leech, and instantly turned back to its blue self when pulled back. The same with the way the scaly Mystique is transforming.

Superhero movies in today's form are not even a couple decades old yet, but the concepts regarding powers, abilities and ideas have been around for a very long time in comics, books and to some degree even TV-shows like Star Trek. But the soulless Bryan Singer movies (amongst others) are presented like it was they who invented all of it.

It would probably work better if they could find a talented director who was and still is a huge fan of the comics (hopefully growing up with pre-Secret Wars comics).


(Edited for title. Keep it brief! — Tim)


Edited by Tim O'Neill on 17 August 2018 at 3:12pm
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 17 August 2018 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I suspect the corporate powers that be are going to see how well X-MEN: DARK PHOENIX and THE NEW MUTANTS do in movie theaters next year and then make a decision as to whether or not they want to integrate the X-Men, their supporting characters and their adversaries into the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Putting them in the MCU would require a complete restart, of course -- ALL previous X-Men/Wolverine movies become non-canonical (Deadpool too, I presume?).

On the other hand, putting the Fantastic Four into the MCU wouldn't (won't?) be that hard. If I was in Kevin Feige's position that's what I would do first. 
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Thomas Woods
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Posted: 17 August 2018 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I hate the FOX versions. I liked Deadpool and the
Colossus in it, but I would be willing to give those up
for a solid reboot.
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 17 August 2018 at 5:55pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I think Deadpool is safe. While the argument could be made that the rest of the line is ready for an overhaul, it would be foolish to mess with the Deadpool films while it's still going strong. And thankfully the very nature of the character in the movies, with his 4th Wall-breaking and self-awareness, make him pretty much immune to any continuity changes in other X-Men related material. He can meet the rebooted X-Men and literally make some quip about the Disney takeover, and then just move on with the story.
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Thomas Woods
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Posted: 17 August 2018 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

He can meet the rebooted X-Men and literally make some
quip about the Disney takeover, and then just move on
with the story.

---

True! I would like to see that Colossus on a new team
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Ray Brady
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Posted: 17 August 2018 at 7:23pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Deadpool and Colossus are probably the most comics-faithful characters in the entire X-Men movie franchise.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 17 August 2018 at 8:02pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I dare anyone here to make lists of all the characters in the X-Men movie franchise, divided into “comics-faithful” and “not comics-faithful”, and why. It would be a good laugh, I’m sure,
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Trevor Krysak
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Posted: 17 August 2018 at 8:53pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Every comic book movie. Every single one. All of them, are not faithful to the comics. Even films fans consider successes are not the comics. And it's unlikely they ever could be.

The comics are comics and the movies are the movies. It's the same thing adapting a novel or short story. Changes are made. In the case of comics we're mostly dealing with adapting serialized fiction. But even a limited series like Kick Ass has to make changes to become a film.

Adapting anything is about how much is compromised in the process. At no time has that ever been zero.
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Petter Myhr Ness
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Posted: 18 August 2018 at 2:08am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

People who think that a Disney/Marvel take-over of X-Men would mean the movies becoming more faithful to the source, are deluding themselves. 

SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING was fun, but faithful? No way. 

I think the battle of source-fidelity has been lost forever. Not just because movie producers will do what they please regardless, but because of constant reboots and make-overs in comics themselves. Case in point: When the show THE FLASH made Wally West black, they were actually being faithful to the comics at that time!

That said, the X-Men franchise is sure to be better in the hands of Marvel, as they at least know how to make a decent movie. 
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 18 August 2018 at 4:54am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

 I have long given up on printed comic collecting.  I might pick up a title on occasion if the art is appealing.  But my days of hitting my LCS every Wednesday and walking out with 10 or 12 titles is done and over.  I genuinely feel like I’m too old for comics as they exist now.  My memories of them are too rooted in the late 60’s - through the 80’s when I fell in love with Marvel Comics.  It’s 2018 and it would be a waste of time and energy hoping Marvel could go back and do it like I remembered.  Like I loved.

The Marvel Studios movies (specifically) have become a new starting point for me.  I closed the chapter on my printed comic book fandom years ago.  My new fandom has begun with the advent of the MCU.  For my purposes, the MCU is writing (filming) an all new Marvel Comics for me to enjoy.  In my mind, the FF don’t exist....yet...because they have yet to be introduced to the MCU.  Same for the X-Men.  

I’ve made the decision to not spend a minute wishing these movies were dead on replicas of the comics.  To me they are actually doing BETTER than the current comics in representing the characters and telling their stories in a much more cogent and appealing fashion.


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Brian Miller
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Posted: 18 August 2018 at 4:56am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I don’t feel I’m too old for comics, I just feel that the comics aren’t being produced to my tastes. 
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 19 August 2018 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

So, apparently when Tim Miller was still slated to direct Deadpool 2, he was going to have a Thing appearance, and possibly even a fight with Juggernaut.  This was the concept art:


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Darren Ashmore
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Posted: 19 August 2018 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Slight correction Steve, DP2 would have had an appearance by the Trank version of the entire FF until the plan was nixed. The image you posted was accompanied by production art of Kate Mara, Micheal B Jordan and Miles Teller in rather more FF-like costumes as opposed to those weird containment suits things they wore in that awful, awful film.
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Darren Ashmore
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Posted: 19 August 2018 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply


http://epicstream.com/news/Josh-Tranks-Fantastic-Four-would- have-Appeared-in-Tim-Millers-Deadpool-2-Check-Out-the-Concep t-Art


Edited by Darren Ashmore on 19 August 2018 at 2:32pm
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 19 August 2018 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING was fun, but faithful? No way. 

***

At least Peter's personality was faithful, as both Peter AND Spider-Man. That's more than I can say about any of the previous "Spider-Man" movies.

That's a good drawing of the Thing. It actually looks like the Thing. But I wouldn't have wanted him to appear in an R-rated Deadpool movie. 
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Olav Bakken
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Posted: 20 August 2018 at 2:34am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

A little late reply since all my efforts to log in on my computer for some reason ends up with "Log in un-successful" (I'm using a library computer right now).

About Deadpool; I felt the last movie was trying too hard not to be serious, if there is such a thing. Colossus looks more faithful because he is always in armor, allowing them to use performance capture. Should he return to human form, they would need to find a proper actor. Sadly there were also some character that were Marvel characters in name only, like Domino.

As we have seen recently in Star Wars; performance capture makes it possible to bring back old characters even if the original actors are dead. Why not use the same approach on superhero movies, where one can make the characters look exactly like they do in the comics (even if that would require that they picked the right artist when deciding the look).

The movies may not be faithful to the comics, but the comics are not always faithful to the comics either. Even if a new writer of Hulk should decide to go "back to basic", which could be the Kirby version or Len Wein version or someone else, you can bet that the next writer will pretend this never happened and create a new incarnation of Hulk.
I also recently read the Vision mini-series. It made me think of Guillermo del Toro's movie Crimson Peak where the character says; "It's not a ghost story, it's a story with a ghost in it". It was not a superhero story, it was a story with superhumans (which were mostly robots) in it. The main focus is on the Vision family, but the plot is what you usually associates with crime, not superheroes.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 20 August 2018 at 8:00am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

ITEM: I think "V for Vendetta" was fairly faithful to the comic, considering the time constraints. "Watchmen" was fairly close too - again, allowing for time constraints and content. (Although the "alien" WOULD have been cool.) I know they weren't exact... but for the most part, they cleaved close to the books.

ITEM: When we define faithful, we need to decide if we're talking about faithful to a movie treatment of a comic story (e.g., "Iron Man", "X-Men: Days of Future Past") or just the heroes (e.g., "Superman the Movie", "The Avengers".) I haven't seen too many adaptations that translate well - too many because they're something of an add-on instead of the main subject of the movie (ref: "Batman v Superman: Yawn of Justice" and the Doomsday story.)
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 20 August 2018 at 12:37pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

While "V FOR VENDETTA" and "WATCHMEN" do strive to hew more closely to their original sources than most, I still find the deviations off-key and distracting. In the "V" comic, one of the first men killed is Louis Prothero, otherwise known as "The Voice of Fate." Fate is the computer that purportedly runs the fascist London of barbed wire and constant surveillance in which the characters live. As the public trusts Fate to operate objectively and without human failing, the voice of Prothero speaks to them persuasively and with authority. When he is driven insane by "V" and left only to babble incoherently, the public hears a new Voice of Fate the next day and is left to question what has gone wrong. That is entirely different than killing a bloviating windbag in his shower. 

Also, Evey in the comic is a starving teenager who's picked up after curfew on her first night out as a prostitute. Natalie Portman's version of the character is considerably older and yet somehow more clueless about how things work in the world in which she lives.

There are no troops in the streets or cordoned off areas of the city in the film, which tries to present the fascist government as having as little effect on the daily lives of its citizens as ours did back when it was telling us to pay very little attention to the war and simply shop more. 

While I like much of the film, its version of fascism is comparatively toothless and it abandons completely the parallel storyline of the policeman's widow and her degrading fall from grace after her husband's death.

And since two of my favorite scenes in Watchmen revolve around the Silk Spectre's smoking habit, the idea that she's a hyper-excited, golly-gee, ass-kicking non-smoker in the film pretty much kills a lot of her character for me. Again, I appreciate the creative choices that bring the film into line with what was seen in the comic. It's amazing the original Nite Owl and his death are in the film at all. It's frankly astonishing how much background with the Minutemen is conveyed in just the opening credits. But when the film makes its own choices, I generally find them to be the wrong ones, up to and including the ending.

Of the two films, I think WATCHMEN is far closer. By contemporizing V, the Wachowskis and co. did a serious disservice to the story.

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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 20 August 2018 at 8:56pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

It's still entirely possible that the federal government will step in and prevent the Disney/Fox Entertainment merger on the basis of anti-trust laws, right?

If so, I hope Disney is still somehow-or-other able to buy the rights to the Fantastic Four. It's clear that Fox has no idea how to "do" the FF properly.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I dare anyone here to make lists of all the characters in the X-Men movie franchise, divided into “comics-faithful” and “not comics-faithful”, and why. It would be a good laugh, I’m sure.

********

To me, NONE of those "FoX-MEN" characters were “comics-faithful”. As much as I'm looking forward to the Marvel Studios' reboot, I'm sure they'll miss the mark on a couple of mutants too!

-C!
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

It's still entirely possible that the federal government will step in and prevent the Disney/Fox Entertainment merger on the basis of anti-trust laws, right?

-----

The DoJ has already filed a proposed final judgment, approving the merger on the condition that Disney sell off the regional sports networks.
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Chris Claremont Wants To Cast Michelle Yeoh As The X-Men's Professor X


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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 6:53pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

"Is there any reason that this character..."
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 7:56pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Yet more proof that JB should've been writing X-MEN through the '80s instead of Claremont. My lord. How absurd. Some characters you can gender-swap -- it's been done in Marvel's Netflix series -- and it's no big deal. They're supporting characters anyway. But Professor X is CHARLES Xavier. There's no way around this. 
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 25 August 2018 at 4:36am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Can someone come and get Chris Claremont, please?
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