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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132239
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| Posted: 30 July 2018 at 8:46am | IP Logged | 1
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If I correctly recall, in one DC/Marvel crossover the additional DC cities are explained by showing that the DC Earth is physically larger than the Marvel one.Ugh. •• Ugh, indeed. Fanboys on parade. Must explain! Must fill in details! Must cover EVERYTHING!!!!!! I can imagine some of these people, as kids or young adults, reading the first SUPERMAN/SPIDER-MAN and making mental notes. "Some day I must explain this!!!" I actually ran into the same mentality (in Mark Gruenwald) when I did DARKSEID/GALACTUS. He wanted to include all kinds of cross-dimensional portals and the like. I sad NO.
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11247
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| Posted: 30 July 2018 at 11:36am | IP Logged | 2
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Robbie said `Years ago, someone (not here) complained
about the Spider-Man/Transformers crossover, saying
something like, "Why hadn't Marvel heroes mentioned
giant robots before?`
Well, there was Red Ronin who appeared in Avengers circa
1978, plus Shogun Warriors had their own Marvel title,
so giant robots were in the Marvel universe.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 30 July 2018 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 3
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True, but some fanboys require explanations for EVERYTHING.
It wasn't enough to SIMPLY BELIEVE and ACCEPT. They needed an explanation as to why Cybertron hadn't been mentioned before. :/
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Paul Lloyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 486
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| Posted: 30 July 2018 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 4
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That particular Captain Britain story is humorous rather than edgy, though, surely? Terry Wogan and Dangermouse are in it! Making the main Marvel Earth "Earth 616" rather than "Earth 1" was pretty funny I thought. Moore does humour very well.
But I think the alternate Earths thing has become a bit overdone at Marvel.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 30 July 2018 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 5
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Paul, that might have been humorous, but the problem I have is that some can take a joke, distort it, stretch it out, etc. And then everyone from other comic editors and writers to Santa Claus do the same. And we arrive at countless earths.
I am not sure how anyone's enjoyment is enhanced by it. How does it add to the comic reading experience to have an Earth-545,677,891? How does it serve any of us to have such arbitrary numbers?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132239
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| Posted: 30 July 2018 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 6
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I am not sure how anyone's enjoyment is enhanced by it. How does it add to the comic reading experience to have an Earth-545,677,891? How does it serve any of us to have such arbitrary numbers?•• It adds to the enjoyment of people who used to be out on the fringe, but who, thru the shrinking of fandom and the industry, have become the center.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132239
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| Posted: 30 July 2018 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 7
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Speaking of Earth 2, someone once asked how the "original" Earth came to have that name. This was the suggested answer.First meeting of the JSA/JLA: JSA "What do you call your world?" JLA "EARTH." JSA "Hey, we call ours Earth, too!"
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 30 July 2018 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | 8
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The Earth-1/ Earth-2 name was eventually established as being the direction of travel for the first dimensional crossover; Barry Allen accidentally vibrated his way from the Earth he was on, Earth-1, to Earth-2, which plays out well, I think.
Robbie, you say you didn't need a numbered Earth for the Super Friends, and you'll be happy to know that, until very recently*, you didn't get one.
The SF comic approached its existence in much the same way the Spidey/Transformers comic did; the Hall of Justice, TroubleAlert, and junior Super-Friends Marvin & Wendy (later Zan & Jayna) were all assumed to be taking place off-stage in the other comics DC produced. You were free to ignore it if you liked or include it if that was your preference.
The comic's sense of continuity was actually as attuned to DC's past as the straight-up JLA title, if not more so. Characters from the Golden and Silver Ages turned up on a routine basis such as Lyra Lerrol, TNT, and Siegel and Shuster's Funnyman. Marvin was said to be the son of the woman who sold Wonder Woman her identity (as shown in the first issue of WW's comic) while Wendy was the daughter of detective Harvey Harris, who helped train Bruce Wayne as a young man.
* I'm certain someone gave it its own world in the whole, ridiculous "Multiversity" mash-up that came and went recently, without leaving so much as a ripple.** ** Wait, I'm wrong. A very stupid Superman crossover with dozens of Multiversity-established Supermen, including Captain Carrot, took place a few years ago... Man, was that badly written.
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Trevor Thompson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 June 2015
Posts: 346
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| Posted: 30 July 2018 at 3:35pm | IP Logged | 9
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All this Earth 1, Earth 2, Earth 246453627 business is crazy. Robbie mentioned the Spider-Man/ Transformers cross over (Zoids too?). As a child not once did it cross my mind that it didn’t make sense and should be explained away that it existed in another dimension. Not once. If that book came out today I’d probably give it a pass but understand it’s clearly aimed at kids. As JB as mentioned many-a-time, once you start wanting everything explained then it’s time to move on.
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 30 July 2018 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 10
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At the time, Earth-2 was not a means of explaining anything, but rather a way to bring back all of the WW II era characters in a contemporary setting. It was a way of opening a door; not a convoluted explanation for why a door was found open.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4499
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| Posted: 30 July 2018 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | 11
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If it helps you tell a good story, great... if it gets in the way of telling a good story, not so great.
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2291
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| Posted: 30 July 2018 at 10:09pm | IP Logged | 12
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I'm curious whether the people here who dislike the idea of Earth-616, etc. also disliked or liked the TV show SLIDERS or H. Beam Piper's Otherwhen/Paratime novels. Do you hate the idea of the Multiverse in fiction in general or just for comics?
I was a little kid when I first learned of Earth-Two and the JSA and I loved it! Superman and Lois Lane were married in the 50's and Batman had a daughter--awesome! You could have your cake and eat it too!
I thought the Freedom Fighters on Earth-X was amazing and I was sad when their series debuted and they moved to Earth-One. Earth-S with the Shazam Family made perfect sense to me, because it was clear that Captain Marvel's world was not as serious as Batman's. Obviously, Superman and Spider-Man were on different Earths--there was no Metropolis or Gotham City that Peter Parker could visit.
That said, I was fine when Spider-Man and Superman teamed up. One of them could have jumped dimensions, but then we wouldn't have seen Peter Parker interact with Clark Kent's co-workers and vice versa. For a one-off story, sure they could live on the same Earth, but if the events of the story were referenced in the monthlies, I would have been upset and thought it stupid.
Do any of the anti-Multiverse people here really think it's a good idea that Superman and Shazam/Captain Marvel exist on the same Earth? It's bad enough that the Martian Manhunter is as powerful as Superman, but then there's Shazam too? Doesn't that de-unique both? And it pushes the writers to do stupid things with Shazam. Shazam, the Huntress, and Power Girl are all potential major stars who have suffered greatly by being squeezed into the same Earth as Superman, 30-year-old Batman, and Supergirl.
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