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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7605
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Posted: 11 July 2018 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | 1
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Reading through a list of this week’s comics I came across a description of Red Hood. This got me thinking about how Jason Todd had been aged which then got me thinking about aging characters in general.
I ask this question - what’s the point? Initially, a writer may say ‘It stirs the pot, allows them to take the character to new places” but does it? Does it really?
Because from looking @ Jason Todd, what it seems to have done is just create a new, different status quo for that character which then created a need to create yet another, new character, to replace the one who has just been aged.
Bar the bit of Red Hood actually being Jason Todd, is there any reason why that character, post the actual Hush story, needs to be Jason Todd? If not, why make him Jason Todd & age that character to an adult?
It just makes no sense to me @ all.
Full disclosure - I have not read Hush, nor have I read Red Hood.
Edited by James Woodcock on 11 July 2018 at 11:29pm
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Petter Myhr Ness Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 3823
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 12:22am | IP Logged | 2
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Dick Grayson aged. Jason Todd (post revival) aged. But Batman remains pretty much the same age. That's the problem right there.
There's no upside to aging characters, in my opinion.
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Andy Mokler Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 January 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2799
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 12:39am | IP Logged | 3
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I agree that aging comic book characters is basically wrong. I'm hesitant to say that whatever age a character is introduced should be what age that character forever remains, but I can't think of any examples that contradict the idea.
The primary reasons for aging comic characters seems to be either so the reader and character can age together or for romantic/sexual possibilities in stories. Neither really benefit the characters.
Is there a term for resetting things to the status quo when a story is done? Anyway, aging characters crosses that line. Along a similar vein and with Kitty Pryde/Colossus and Batman/Catwoman wedding issues lately I tried to think of a wedding of comic characters that actually improved things. The only possibility I could come up with was Reed and Sue but I don't recall if their wedding was a flashback or if they were already married when they were introduced as characters.
I wonder if evolve and age are being confused and misused when writers age characters?
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7605
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 1:09am | IP Logged | 4
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Reed & Sue we’re not married when they were introduced & remain one of the few examples where that works. Franklin though presents a problem. I can’t help thinking that aging a character tends to be because a writer wants to tell a story with that character that could be told using a different character but might not get as much publicity.
But the writer never thinks to ask or answer the question ‘What next’?
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5065
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 2:49am | IP Logged | 5
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Aging characters is a problem.
In the original Who's Who # 10 DC published there was a letter written asking (and I quote):
"Another idea is establishing the birthdays and ages of all of your characters."
Len Wein responded:
"We are reluctant to establish birth dates and ages for our heroes and villains and only have a few definitive birth dates. Like limiting the powers by giving too much information, we feel this too will limit our characters."
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14812
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 5:45am | IP Logged | 6
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Because from looking @ Jason Todd, what it seems to have done is just create a new, different status quo for that character which then created a need to create yet another, new character, to replace the one who has just been aged.
——-
There are all sorts of things wrong with the way Jason Todd/Red Hood is handled, but what you say here does not reflect what happened. He was killed off and replaced with Tim Drake.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7605
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 5:47am | IP Logged | 7
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Which I guess is a variation on the theme.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132234
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 8
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The Old Guard understood. All comics take place NOW. Read issues from the Thirties, the Forties, the Fifties, etc. The captions are in the Present Tense.Occasionally, character in comics and strips have aged. GASOLINE ALLEY is a prime example. Terry grew up in ...AND THE PIRATES. Cookie and Alexander Bumstead went from tots to teens, and beyond (wile Alexander's friend Elmo remained locked in childhood). When the "Marvel Age" started, the characters aged. Johnny Storm and Peter Parker both went from high school to college, for instance. But most characters, being adults, needed to show no overt signs of aging. In fact. one can feel Stan and Jack steadily applying the brakes in FANTASTIC FOUR. They started at a company that was constantly on the edge of dissolving. After a few years, they realized they were going to be around for a while. One of the earliest indicators of their changing attitude was when Franklin was shipped off to Whisper Hill, to be taken care of by Agatha Harkness. A handy way to get rid of a character who HAD to "age" without actually killing him. Unfortunately, it wasn't long before he was back, and aging. When I took over the book I arbitrarily turned him back to 4 years old, and kept him there for the next 5 years. It seems, tho, that many, pros and fans alike, simply cannot do the math. They ignore the fact that Dick Grayson going from 12 to 25 means Bruce Wayne has aged the same amount. And then Wally West ages beyond that. And so on.
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5065
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 9
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Weird that fans need aging or ages in the comics, but can probably accept the here and now scenario that a programme like "The Simpsons" has served up for nearly 30 years.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132234
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 10:24am | IP Logged | 10
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The fans who want the characters to age are the ones who have stuck around too long. They can't embrace the most basic tropes, and want the characters to reflect their own changing conditions.
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Drew Spence Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2014 Location: United States Posts: 225
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 11
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The fans who want the characters to age are the ones who have stuck around too long. Wow, that's harsh/ Man, you don't pull punches. lol
I think aging should be done with flash-forwards or one-shot stories that may or may not happen in the future. I like possible futures.
I think there should always be a version that has ...classic-style adventures and also side-properties that twist and bend the foundational elements.
I think, for instance, Clark and Lois can stay the same, but maybe the news/media world modernizes......
I'm even for time standing still. A classic series told in the SAME TIME they started, still to this day. Like imagine, it was still the 70s when....
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Wallace Sellars Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 17667
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 12
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QUOTE:
There's no upside to aging characters, in my opinion. |
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As much as I enjoyed the Spider-Man stories where Peter is in college, I don't think he should have ever aged out of high school. Kid Flash should still be a kid. Dick Grayson should have never grown up to become Nightwing.
*Character aging in INVINCIBLE works because the creator stayed with the book from start to finish, and had a clear ending for the series in mind for quite a while.
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