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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2364
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Posted: 04 July 2018 at 5:10am | IP Logged | 1
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I just confidently proclaimed on a Facebook post that Dave Cockrum is comics' best designer, and then I'm just now taking another look at all the character designs Alex Ross has done for ASTRO CITY (and remembering KINGDOM COME and BATWOMAN, etc.) and they're pretty darn great. And, of course, Neal Adams gave us the bearded GREEN ARROW, HAVOK, the blue & white ANGEL costume, and plenty of others (I happen to like the look of all his Continuity Comics characters). And then there's Kirby...
So, I thought I'd put it out there--Who is the best character/costume designer in comics? (And for this quiz, I'm not differentiating between first designs and re-designs.) Numbers should matter somewhat: Rich Buckler did great with DEATHLOK and DEVIL-SLAYER, but I can't put his two up against Ross or Kirby's many dozens.
So, is it-- DAVE COCKRUM NEAL ADAMS JACK KIRBY ALEX ROSS or someone else?
And nothing to slight JB or others. And I don't want to mix up admiration for KIrby's power or Ross' painting skills with a true assessment of their actual designs (designs that would stand the test of time by being well interpreted by others). I feel that--
Neal Adams is comics' best penciler, Alex Ross is comics' best painter, John Byrne is comic's best storyteller, and Kirby is, well, the best. And then there's Ditko... But who's the best designer?
Edited by Eric Jansen on 04 July 2018 at 5:16am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 04 July 2018 at 5:23am | IP Logged | 2
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Gil Kane.
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14857
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Posted: 04 July 2018 at 5:30am | IP Logged | 3
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Steve Ditko for Spider-Man and his rogues’ gallery, not to mention Dr. Strange, the red and gold Iron Man, Eternity, and his Charlton characters.
I’d add Gil Kane to the list of names being considered.
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Marc Baptiste Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3655
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Posted: 04 July 2018 at 5:45am | IP Logged | 4
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Gil Kane or Dave Cockrum... argh!!!
I will go with Gil Kane for those minimalist, sleek, elegant, streamlined looking costumes that I love so much.
Marc
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Bob Simko Byrne Robotics Security
Negative Mod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 5982
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Posted: 04 July 2018 at 7:03am | IP Logged | 5
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Yeah...Gil kane, hands down.
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Jack Bohn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2013 Location: United States Posts: 747
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Posted: 04 July 2018 at 7:33am | IP Logged | 6
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Eric Jansen wrote:
And I don't want to mix up admiration for KIrby's power or Ross' painting skills with a true assessment of their actual designs (designs that would stand the test of time by being well interpreted by others). |
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I listen to a podcast that often expresses pity for artist who aren't George Perez who have to draw Nightwing's collar so it makes sense, so I take your meaning.
Gil Kane was Roy Thomas's go-to guy to give heroes a start in MARVEL PREMIER and such for others to take over. I agree with his decision.
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Mark McKay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2258
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Posted: 04 July 2018 at 7:33am | IP Logged | 7
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Kane’s costumes look timeless, Cockrum’s feel a bit more of the moment. Some are very cool, but seem more dated now.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 04 July 2018 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 8
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Kane’s costumes look timeless, Cockrum’s feel a bit more of the moment. Some are very cool, but seem more dated now.•• Kane tended to play against the conventional tropes. Look at his Green Lantern, as a prime example. Sure, the boots and gloves are there, but the trunks are not. And the gloves are white.* As I have noted before, I was constantly blown away by Dave's costumes, especially since he used his own catalog of tropes over and over. Thigh high boots, opera gloves, a sash. It was as if he had a magic template, because every time he used it the costumes seemed new and fresh. ___________________________ * One of many things the movie got wrong. I can almost hear the production designers. "Check it out! They kept forgetting to color his gloves in the comics! Now we've fixed that!" And then someone notices that the green of the ring plasma is lost against green gloves, so they make it so bright it's almost white. sigh
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Robert Bradley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4880
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Posted: 04 July 2018 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 9
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Kane did something similar with the Atom - boots, gloves and belt, but no trunks. The use of red and blue with a simple design gave him good color balance and a unique look.
His redesign of Adam Warlock for Marvel Premiere was a little different the boots, bracelets and belt seemed to fit pretty well with the Counter Earth/Jesus Christ theme. But the design was not nearly as simple as the Green Lantern or Atom.
Iron Fist was another fairly simple design with the collar, "slippers" and dragon scar being the only unusual design elements. Kane had used a similar collar design for Morbius a few years later, in what was a pretty simple design with the exception of his "bat-wings" under his arms (like Spider-Man's webs).
Kane also had a hand in the design of Tigra when she was transformed from the Cat - and again, it's another fairly simple costume (basically a bikini) with Tigra also having orange fur and striping covering her body and some vague cat-like features (mainly her eyes and fangs).
The main theme (if there really was one) in his designs seems to be simplicity, which generally holds up pretty well over time.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 04 July 2018 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 10
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Gil's costumes tended to follow the natural lines of the body. (At the risk of being accused of speaking ill of the dead, I really did not like what Darwyn Cooke did with existing costumes. Jack Kirby would sometimes draw trunks as having short "legs", and Cooke brought this to his versions of the DC characters. Only Wonder Woman had ever been drawn that way before, and on someone like Green Lantern it just looked wrong.)
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Robert Bradley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4880
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Posted: 04 July 2018 at 9:37am | IP Logged | 11
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Jack Kirby - Fantastic Four, Black Bolt, Galactus, Captain America, Doctor Doom, Galactus, Goliath, Silver Surfer
Steve Ditko - Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, Iron Man, Blue Beetle, Green Goblin
John Buscema - Vision, Yellowjacket, Mephisto, Valkyrie
John Romita - Bullseye, Punisher, Black Widow, Nova
Gil Kane - Green Lantern, Atom, Iron Fist, Morbius, Adam Warlock, Captain Marvel
Dave Cockrum - Storm, Phoenix, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Ms. Marvel, Element Lad, Thunderbird, Starboy
Carmine Infantinio - Adam Strange, Deadman, the Flash, Black Canary, Phantom Stranger
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Darren Ashmore Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 960
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Posted: 04 July 2018 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 12
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Gotta put George Perez on the list. His designs run the full range from simple (like Changeling for example), to very complex (like the Scarlet Witch redesign in the 90's)
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