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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 23 June 2018 at 6:11am | IP Logged | 1
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Obscure? You want obscure? How about Mysterio vs. Dr. Light? •• How are either of them "obscure"?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 23 June 2018 at 6:12am | IP Logged | 2
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BTW, I applaud this thread for escaping the Hawkeye vs Green Arrow, Namor vs Aquaman, Mister Fantastic vs Elongated Man cliche.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23 June 2018 at 7:12am | IP Logged | 3
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I might be mistaken about "obscurity"... but if I went to anyone on the street and asked them about Mysterio or Dr. Light, I'd get blank looks.
I haven't read modern comics for maybe a decade now, so I don't even know if either of those characters are still being used. But both, while put to excellent use, never seemed a major villain for anyone.
Yes, I know that Mysterio is one of Spider-Man's deadliest enemies, and I don't argue it. But I wonder how many standard readers would put him on a list of Spider-Man's top six enemies - say a new Sinister Six. Or would that be Venom, Carnage, Green Goblin, Doc Ock, the Vulture, and Kingpin.
I don't intend "obscure" as an insult... just my observation.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 23 June 2018 at 7:19am | IP Logged | 4
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I might be mistaken about "obscurity"... but if I went to anyone on the street and asked them about Mysterio or Dr. Light, I'd get blank looks. •• Not a good test. In all the years I was working on FANTASTIC FOUR, most civilians I encountered had no idea who they were, and the rest had dim memories of the animated version. "Right, there was, like, Rock Guy, and..." The main DC characters had been adapted in other media more often, so one could mention Alfred the butler, or Commissioner Gordon, or Perry White or Jimmy Olsen and bet more than a blank look, but for some reason the Marvel characters remained shrouded. When Marvel made a big deal out of Peter Parker and Mary Jane getting married, I pointed out that most of the civilian audience would not know that they were not already married -- and a chunk of them would not know who MJ was. This was hardly Clark and Lois. So, even today, most civilians don't really come out of the movie theater with encyclopedic knowledge of the characters.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 23 June 2018 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 5
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John Byrne wrote:
| BTW, I applaud this thread for escaping the Hawkeye vs Green Arrow, Namor vs Aquaman, Mister Fantastic vs Elongated Man cliche. |
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Thanks, I'm glad I started it.
My motivation in picking those characters was to be different.
As a kid, I was predictable when discussing hypothetical bouts. I always opted for Aquaman VS Namor or Deathstroke VS Deadshot.
As an adult, I try and vary it. I mean, if executives at DC and Marvel came to me, and told me I could have ANY crossover I desired, I'd ask them for something like Aquaman/Ghost Rider. How do we get a water-based plot that draws in Ghost Rider? How do we get Aquaman to interact with supernatural elements? How do we get these two characters to meet?
I'd much rather see an odd pairing than, say, Green Arrow VS Hawkeye.
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
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| Posted: 23 June 2018 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 6
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Aquaman finds an ancient tablet, broken and difficult to read, that tells of a way to raise a water-demon, similar in nature to Zarathos, the Ghost Rider, able to transform sea life into demonic forms he can control. As soon as the tablet is unearthed, Zarathos knows, and comes after whoever is holding it. There's a reason that particular demon is not allowed out of hell. Can the Ghost Rider's cycle still burn underwater, boiling everything around him? He certainly doesn't need to breathe. And how does Aquaman combat two supernatural menaces, both that of an angry Zarathos and his watery brother? Would ancient Atlantean sorcerer, Arion be consulted? Is there magical knowledge to which only the King of the Seas is privy?
Dr. Light is so deeply unpleasant now that I'd rather swap him out for Mirror Master in a match-up between Marvel and DC baddies, if we can do that. Kyle Baker had a bit of dark humor in the final issue of his Plastic Man series wherein Billy Batson was killed. "That wasn't the worst of it," the narration tells us. "It's what Dr. Light did to the body after they gave it to him. It's like his super power now."
We could still use Light in the following scenario, but I'd prefer Mirror Master. Quentin Beck, the original Mysterio, (i.e. NOT the sexual abuse victim and teleporter) is working again as a special effects man under an assumed identity on a major film. In the course of filming, the Flash is seen battling MM (or Light, you pick) and Beck is taken aback at some of the illusionary tricks and image-based attacks the villain is able to generate as he escapes. Not that his own are lacking, but with an entirely new bag of tricks at his disposal, especially those, Beck could really make a comeback, both on the set and in the criminal world. He sets out to track down the bad guy on his own to steal his secrets. MM or Light discover him in mid-theft. Cue battle sequence. He's more than happy to let Beck know, through demonstration, "it's all done with mirrors..."
Edited by Brian Hague on 23 June 2018 at 11:24am
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Brian Hague
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| Posted: 23 June 2018 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 7
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As for the knowledge viewers of franchise films come away with, I've told the story of how my co-workers were all wondering why there was such a mystery surrounding Rey's parents in the Star Wars films. Didn't we meet her dad? Wasn't he played by the guy who played Hannibal? Didn't he sabotage the Death Star?
Even when I explained that Jyn Erso and Rey were not the same character and separated by a generation, they still wanted to associate the two, saying that maybe Jyn could be Rey's mother then.
Many go to films to enjoy the story, not memorize it so they can incorporate what they've learned into the overall tapestry being constructed. I've talked with those who don't get why Cap's crew all look so different in "Infinity War." That they've been on the run for five years from Thunderbolt Ross and the government after "Civil War" is a hard sell for some. They didn't wrap that up in that film?
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 23 June 2018 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 8
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Good stuff for Aquaman/Ghost Rider, Brian.
I wish I could come up with many ideas, myself. The only one I had was Bruce Banner meeting Dr Curt Connors to "swap notes" on new research pertaining to suppressing aggressive tendencies. Both men would work together to deal with their own problems, but it'd lead to a (short) Hulk/Lizard fight.
Some characters seem to lend themselves to easier set-ups. Kraven is one. He wants to hunt and be challenged. Why, after hunting numerous animals, wouldn't he set his sights on humans and the like? I'd like to see Kraven come up with some traps for Iron Man. And wouldn't Kraven like to hunt and trap Lizard?
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