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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 9:37am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I'm not aware of Marvel ways of dealing with books like this but isn't it possible for you to have complete control of the storyline and concepts you create for "Elsewhen" as this series would be completely outside the current X-Books storyline?

Outside the current X-Books this may be, but these are still characters owned by a big, powerful corporation. They don't want them messed up.

There's also the experience I've had of editors assuming they know more about the characters than I do--which would be extremely dangerous on a book like this. On HIDDEN YEARS there were editorial screw ups even tho I was referencing existing material. Here, I will be MAKING IT UP, so plenty of opportunities for various gnomes to "fix" stuff.

The truly annoying part, as I have noted, is that these gaffs most often happen because nobody bothers to pick up the phone. Imagine this simple exchange:

Editor: John, you've got Sauron referring to himself as having shared a lab with Xavier. But Magneto is in the panel, so I guess you meant that dialog to be his, right?

Me: It was established in his first appearance that Sauron was once Xavier's lab partner. Chris added Magneto to the equation decades later.

ED: Oh, I didn't know that!

See? Simple. Yet didn't happen, and the scene was messed up.

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David Schmidt
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 10:13am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Wow. That's so unprofessional...

About the messed up characters I don't understand what they can be afraid of.
Didn't they already let Nightcrawler be the devil's son? Didn't they already let Cyclops kill Professor X?

Honestly what could be worse than that?
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Darren Taylor
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 10:51am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I have to note that I'm quite flabbergasted by the number of comments (Conceding, this one as well) on BWS.

I thought this and "X" were relatively well known. 

It has been quite the eye-opener to see so many trip-up/fixate over this.

Makes me wonder about other things I take for granted.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I have to note that I'm quite flabbergasted by the number of comments (Conceding, this one as well) on BWS.

One of the things that has perplexed me since my earliest days on the interweb is how many people DON'T think "Oh, surely somebody must have commented on this already?"

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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

About the messed up characters I don't understand what they can be afraid of.Didn't they already let Nightcrawler be the devil's son? Didn't they already let Cyclops kill Professor X?

Honestly what could be worse than that?

Somewhere along the way, there grew among certain segments of fandom the notion that I don't LIKE the characters. After all, if I LIKED them, why would I do all these terrible things to them? (Well, for one thing, you'd be BORED if I didn't!)

So every time I am handed a new project, there are those who will assume I am going to do what I can to break the characters.

It's the old fanboy trifecta: "I don't like this! Therefore it is bad! Therefore it must be bad on purpose!"

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Richard Palmgren
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 11:57am | IP Logged | 6 post reply


So every time I am handed a new project, there are those who will assume I am going to do what I can to break the characters
---------------
Only small-minded people!  Every time you've taken on a project of previously created characters you've elevated them both artistically and in character development!  (ie. Susan Richards in the FF run, or even Number One in Crew)

Marvel should give you the current X-Universe just to finally get it back on track
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Leigh DJ Hunt
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Back onto tropes, a recent thread elsewhere suggested that your 'thing' JB, is to 'fix' things back to the way that it used to be. Returning 'villains' to their villainous ways after they'd started to go straight, as an example. So anything done post-Lee/Kirby/Ditko that was a fundamental change to a character done by a peer that you didn't like is something you like to 'correct'. Some people seem to have really strong opinions about some of these things e.g. the Vision in your Avengers run. 


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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Very often the things I do that set some fans to snarling are the same things that are applauded if done by someone else.
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Mario Ribeiro
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

One of my childhood traumas was reading the letters section in a Brazilian Marvel comic back in the eighties, and the question was about how Graphic Novels fit continuity and the editor answered that since Iron Man's Crash took place in the future, "at least you know someone like Byrne won't kill the character". And I was like: "I hope they keep Spider-Man away from John Byrne!"

Edited by Mario Ribeiro on 25 March 2019 at 2:19pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 2:31pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

And yet... who have I killed?
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Mario Ribeiro
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Well, I guess Phoenix and The Guardian, but it was very early on in my collecting (I haven't even read those stories). So I believed them!

Edited by Mario Ribeiro on 25 March 2019 at 2:43pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I mean of Iron Man caliber.
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Philippe Negrin
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I won't repeat it because it understandibly has become a nuisance but Ted, I love your suggestion for the title on the previous page. It's cryptic and poetic, grim and optimistic at the same time, bears similarities with the subject matter and makes for a reference to one of the business's secrets. All this with 3 words. Magic.


edited for clarity


Edited by Philippe Negrin on 25 March 2019 at 3:37pm
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Joe Smith
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

I was, and still am, a bigger fan of Guardian that I ever
was of Iron Man.
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Mario Ribeiro
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

I mean of Iron Man caliber.

***

Well, back in the good old days no one of Iron Man caliber had died. Yet. But really, Brazilian editors were crazy about you. Sometimes they even put your name on the cover, which was extremely rare. As in:



It doesn't make their statement true, though, and I was too young to know better.


Edited by Mario Ribeiro on 25 March 2019 at 8:15pm
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Somewhere along the way, there grew among certain segments of fandom the notion that I don't LIKE the characters. After all, if I LIKED them, why would I do all these terrible things to them? (Well, for one thing, you'd be BORED if I didn't!)
+++++++

Conflict is the essence of drama!
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Odd that on that cover you posted, Mario, the editors did not go with artwork by JB, yet the cover copy directly relates to him.

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Mario Ribeiro
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Posted: 25 March 2019 at 10:56pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Yes, Matt, that's pretty much what I thought, too, as I chose it. It didn't seem JB's art. (For the record, most of them did feature his art.) Some of their choices were really weird. I guess the name was enough, there was no need for his art.

Edited by Mario Ribeiro on 25 March 2019 at 10:57pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 March 2019 at 6:19am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

......drift........
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Richard Palmgren
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Posted: 26 March 2019 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Here's a question:

Your Elsewhen depiction of Cyclops looks exactly as if the issue were drawn as the next one in 1980.  I was looking at the evolution of your version of his visor from your first bulky Cockrum version in 108 to the streamlined one in 118 - 137.  Are there any plans to change his visor as a story point (just like the explanation in GS #1 that his blasts came back stronger after his capture hence the new visor)?

And, sidenote, your version of the Neal Adams visor is hands down my favorite version of Cyclops' eyewear 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 March 2019 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

I noted up-thread that I plan to follow thru on something I had in mind back in 1980, to slenderize Scott's visor back to something closer to the original Kirby version--which also happens to be my favorite. However, the opportunity has not yet presented itself.

(Oddly--well, to me, anyway--a lot of artists seem to have trouble drawing the original visor. Dave was one of them, which may have somewhat informed his decision to change the design.)

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Richard Palmgren
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Posted: 26 March 2019 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

 However, the opportunity has not yet presented itself.
----------------------------------

well, fingers crossed that you eventually get to it.  And you answered my next question as to which version of the visor was your favorite.  I think it's awesome storytelling when artistic differences are actually explained as in-story explanations (as in the way you explained the different looks of The Thing back in FF and Two-in-One)
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Richard Palmgren
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Posted: 26 March 2019 at 9:14am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

actually that brings up a related question about Cyke's visor:

In your mind, is the Jack Kirby (X-men #1) version of Scott's visor the same visor drawn by you in Hidden Years?

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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 March 2019 at 9:24am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

In your mind, is the Jack Kirby (X-men #1) version of Scott's visor the same visor drawn by you in Hidden Years?

Don't see why it wouldn't be.

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Richard Palmgren
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Posted: 26 March 2019 at 9:41am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Don't see why it wouldn't be.
-------------------

Perfect!  Thanks!
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