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Wilson Mui
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4527
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| Posted: 03 September 2018 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | 1
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Since you redraw the Stratojet, do you need to tweak the image in the
last panel of page six where Kitty is falling from the sky?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132396
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| Posted: 03 September 2018 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 2
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Doesn't need it.
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Tony Marin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 August 2018
Posts: 96
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| Posted: 03 September 2018 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 3
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Thanks for the compliment Derek, I am a fan Genes’ work. It’s a bit of a learning curve at the moment, I’m using the new iPad Pro with the app Procreate to do all of this. I never would have thought I’d used anything but traditional media but this thing is amazing.
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Mike Thompson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 November 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 33
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| Posted: 03 September 2018 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | 4
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Tony, your inking and coloring are superb.
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Oliver Denker
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 August 2018
Location: Germany
Posts: 211
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| Posted: 03 September 2018 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 5
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@ Tony Marin
Well done.
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Luke Smyth
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 790
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| Posted: 04 September 2018 at 9:29am | IP Logged | 6
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Not disputing the talents of Tony Marin, but the above page
demonstrates to concerns I had about the right inker and colorist being
so important.
The inks and colors should be in service to the pencils not the other
way round, which is what you have done here.
In panel 2, instead of following the pencils which defined the muscles,
collarbone etc. you drew your own abstract black shapes that serve no
purpose whatsoever, not to mention changes to his visor and ignoring
some of the rendering on his face. You also ignored the panel border in
panel 3. The page now no longer conforms to the layouts of the other
pages.
Not a fan of color holds, if JB draws a line I expect to see it. Colossus’
shoulder Storm’s hair, Nightcrawler, clouds etc.
Nothing personal Tony, your work is typical of modern sensibilities, but
this thread affords us the chance to express our concerns/hopes for this
project, should it come to pass. These would be mine.
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Tony Marin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 August 2018
Posts: 96
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| Posted: 04 September 2018 at 10:15am | IP Logged | 7
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Hey Luke nothing personal taken. I know in the 80’s following someone like Johns work, even as a kid, I could tell the difference various inkers brought to his work. Some I liked, others I didn’t. I’m not pretending to be a professional here, I’m only doing this for fun and just experimenting with a new toy.
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Richard Palmgren
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 328
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| Posted: 04 September 2018 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 8
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A frustrating aspect of my trip to Toronto: thinking of a dozen things I wanted to tweak on these pages AND NOT BEING ABLE TO DO THEM!-------------------------- and by "tweaking" did you mean drawing the next issue?
Just kidding there. But with that in mind, a logistical and completely hypothetical question:
Would you / could you create original characters to appear in Elsewhen? (Like "your" New Mutants or new X-Men members) I think people's heads would explode if new characters popped up here.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132396
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| Posted: 04 September 2018 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 9
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Oh, I’d certainly do a limited amount of character creation. I wonder... I “hate” the numbered Earths, but that might be a good way to sell this thing...
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6144
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| Posted: 04 September 2018 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 10
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One attractive part of the existing issue to me is that it leaps past all the "What
if..." stories that I have collected over the years by hearing about unfinished
ideas that didn't happen because John Byrne left the X-Men. It really feels like
the X-Men are back and surrounded by a limitless horizon.
I suppose there is one idea from that era that is fundamental-- the problem of
Jean Grey/Phoenix. Otherwise, I would hope (if this were real) that all bets are
off and that anything within the expanse of the entire Marvel Universe is
possible without reference to what has been discussed or printed anywhere
else.
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Richard Palmgren
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 328
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| Posted: 04 September 2018 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 11
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I wonder... I “hate” the numbered Earths, but that might be a good way to sell this thing...----------- How much "selling" would even have to be done? All the teenage fans of your 137 era have families and incomes to share this nostalgia and would scoop up everything that rolls out of Elsewhen! A gold mine for anyone who publishes it!
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4506
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| Posted: 04 September 2018 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | 12
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I think Tony's inks are in service to the pencils, but I can definitely see Tony's own rendering style in the inks. A certain amount of interpretation has to occur with these pencils. I certainly don't think the backgrounds are fully formed and complete. They are jungle, but when you start putting ink onto the page you have to decide what parts are wood, leaves, vines, moss, etc. to interpret what is meant. By John's own admission he does not try to make his pencil behave the same way all the inker's tools behave. Also, let's not forget when you want to see every pencil line inked that it is rare you even have a chance to see the pencils in the first place. In most cases you only get the finished product and don't have a complete understanding of how the image changed from pencil lines to ink lines. On top of that, JB keeps seeing bits that he wants to improve upon. This is a VERY rare glimpse into the creative process.
Tony has a rendering style reminiscent of Buzz or Neal Adams where very small deliberate lines are accumulated to render shapes. He has a very good understanding of how to use shadow to give the illusion of an outline instead of outlining every shape with an inked line. I recognize the parts that are John Byrne, but I can also recognize the parts that are Tony Marin because of his style. I think Tony handled the page rather well and made some nice choices, but ultimately I think he could let more of John's pencils show through on the inked image.
Personally, I have been looking at and inking lots of John Buscema pencils in preparation to tackle the JB's Elsewhen pages. There are some very similar pencil lines in my opinion between Buscema's pencils and John Byrne's.. I have also been looking at Frazetta and Mark Shultz because they both handled jungles so damned well. These pencils that JB posted are a complete blast for me and every night I enjoy coming home to see if there are updates, to study the pages and then practice my butt off. They are a great challenge and education for an amateur, hobby inker like myself. It seems very rare to get pencils that allow an inker to do more than trace because so many pencils these days seem ready for publication with just a little adjustment to curves or levels in Photoshop. I'm grateful for a glimpse into the process and sure hope there is more to come.
Edited by Eric Ladd on 04 September 2018 at 4:33pm
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Topic Closed)
