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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132282
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Posted: 13 June 2018 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 1
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BBCOr a man of his time who later saw the error of his thinking?
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11249
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Posted: 13 June 2018 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 2
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A man of his time, and racism isn`t exclusive to white people as is stated in the article, other races are racist and xenophobic.
Example, i worked with a black guy, he started going out with an Indian woman, the abuse and vandalism they got from heir respective communities was awful.All respect to them ,it didn`t split them up.
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Michael Sommerville Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 417
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Posted: 13 June 2018 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 3
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People judge through the lens' of today. It is especially hard for younger generations to understand that the racial ignorance did not always come from a place of hate or feelings of superiority. There was less integration and understanding of groups and judgment was made on superficial observations.
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Joseph Greathouse Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2015 Location: United States Posts: 588
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Posted: 13 June 2018 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | 4
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Racism can be, and often is unintended. Its our ability to educate ourselves and our humility to admit that we are wrong that allows someone to grow. Einstein had the best of both of those abilities.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7616
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Posted: 13 June 2018 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | 5
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We all like to think we are better than those that came before us & that we could never have held the racist views that they did.
I often get a little scared that were I born in different times, I wouldn’t have known any better, because that’s how people were.
As it is, I know, that as a young boy, I used phrases like Cheating Arab Jew nose Paki
& probably many others that I have forgotten. So yeah, people looking @ my past will find things that could be used to say I was a racist. & I’m sure they could find them in your history too.
Because we didn’t know any better & we were surrounded by that culture.
Let’s look @ the now & celebrate that we have moved on shall we, without imposing our enlightened position on an unenlightened past. It’s not fair to do so & belittles the progress that has been made
Edited by James Woodcock on 13 June 2018 at 10:18pm
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3488
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Posted: 13 June 2018 at 10:37pm | IP Logged | 6
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Everyone always thinks that society has finally arrived. How many things that we all say and do today will be looked back on, 200 years from now, as hopelessly backward and ignorant?
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11249
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 12:38am | IP Logged | 7
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James, of the phrases you mentioned, i only experienced the use of `Paki`, as in `I will buy it from the Paki shop`in the 70`s. I recall a similar phrase being used by Del Boy in the BBC sitcom Only Fools and Horses in the late 80`s/early 90`s, and being shocked to hear it, as by then it had died from use.I wonder if it`s excised from the endless repeats of the show?
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 8
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We are inherently tribal creatures, so racism will always be part of us. Fortunately we also have the ability to overcome our instincts, so racism need not be the overriding thing in our lives. What he wrote in his diary about my race, the Chinese, makes me cringe. But I am not aware of Einstein actually doing things motivated by racist ideas, and I don't think badly of him. Though in these modern times, a thought crime is a practically a hanging offense.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 14 June 2018 at 9:05am
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David Teller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 June 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 213
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 10:02am | IP Logged | 9
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What has been interesting to me, is the change in opinion on homosexual slurs. As a boy (and young man) these were thrown around with impunity. Now, they seem to have become far less common and whilst not regarded as repugnant as racist comments, seem to be heading that way.
I can understand how an older person could feel. Seeing their old language through new eyes could make one reflect on their own bad behaviour from a past when it was not considered as bad.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132282
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 10
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We seem to have forgotten that many of our common phrases began as slurs against homosexual men. To say that something "sucks" or "blows" for instance.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 11
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I'm heading in a different direction, I know, but I was told off (social media) for using the term wheelchair-bound. Apparently, at least in the UK, it's preferable to say "wheelchair user".
I'm fine with that. But the person did rip me on social media. The fact is, by using the term "wheelchair-bound", I meant zero offense. Sad fact is, I don't know whether anyone would choose to be in a wheelchair, and if a condition means one has to be in one, that is, well, "wheelchair-bound" seemed logical.
I'll respect those who ask that "wheelchair user" be used, but, although this is totally different to what we're discussing here (great topic, by the way), the fact is, sometimes you just don't know what terms are to be used. Obviously, you don't casually drop racial slurs - that's wrong! - but in a world where I can get in trouble for using the term "wheelchair-bound", it shows how difficult things can be at times.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7616
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 12
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My worry is that the terms are changing so fast and I may not know the latest correct terminology.
Some are easy - so Spaz, cripple - they clearly are no longer acceptable - either as a description or an insult, although I have, in unguarded, high adrenaline moments caught myself using spaz to describe myself when I do something wrong.
But is disabled still acceptable? I genuinely don't know. There are now things that I changed to, in order to not be offensive once I understood that it was offensive, but the things I changed to have been changed on offense grounds.
Pretty sure I am causing offence all over the place without meaning to.
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