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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 June 2018 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

BBC

Or a man of his time who later saw the error of his thinking?

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Bill Collins
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Posted: 13 June 2018 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

A man of his time, and racism isn`t exclusive to white
people as is stated in the article, other races are
racist and xenophobic.

Example, i worked with a black guy, he started going out
with an Indian woman, the abuse and vandalism they got
from heir respective communities was awful.All respect
to them ,it didn`t split them up.
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Michael Sommerville
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Posted: 13 June 2018 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

People judge through the lens' of today. It is especially hard for younger generations to understand that the racial ignorance did not always come from a place of hate or feelings of superiority. There was less integration and understanding of groups and judgment was made on superficial observations.
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Joseph Greathouse
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Posted: 13 June 2018 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Racism can be, and often is unintended. Its our ability to educate ourselves and our humility to admit that we are wrong that allows someone to grow. Einstein had the best of both of those abilities.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 13 June 2018 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

We all like to think we are better than those that came before us & that we could never have held the racist views that they did.

I often get a little scared that were I born in different times, I wouldnít have known any better, because thatís how people were.

As it is, I know, that as a young boy, I used phrases like
Cheating Arab
Jew nose
Paki

& probably many others that I have forgotten.
So yeah, people looking @ my past will find things that could be used to say I was a racist. & Iím sure they could find them in your history too.

Because we didnít know any better & we were surrounded by that culture.

Letís look @ the now & celebrate that we have moved on shall we, without imposing our enlightened position on an unenlightened past. Itís not fair to do so & belittles the progress that has been made


Edited by James Woodcock on 13 June 2018 at 10:18pm
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 13 June 2018 at 10:37pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Everyone always thinks that society has finally arrived.  How many things that we all say and do today will be looked back on, 200 years from now, as hopelessly backward and ignorant?
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 12:38am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

James, of the phrases you mentioned, i only experienced
the use of `Paki`, as in `I will buy it from the Paki
shop`in the 70`s.
I recall a similar phrase being used by Del Boy in the
BBC sitcom Only Fools and Horses in the late 80`s/early
90`s, and being shocked to hear it, as by then it had
died from use.I wonder if it`s excised from the endless
repeats of the show?
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

We are inherently tribal creatures, so racism will always be part of us. Fortunately we also have the ability to overcome our instincts, so racism need not be the overriding thing in our lives. What he wrote in his diary about my race, the Chinese, makes me cringe. But I am not aware of Einstein actually doing things motivated by racist ideas, and I don't think badly of him. Though in these modern times, a thought crime is a practically a hanging offense. 

Edited by Joe Zhang on 14 June 2018 at 9:05am
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David Teller
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 10:02am | IP Logged | 9 post reply


What has been interesting to me, is the change in opinion on homosexual slurs. As a boy (and young man) these were thrown around with impunity. Now, they seem to have become far less common and whilst not  regarded as repugnant as racist comments, seem to be heading that way.

I can understand how an older person could feel. Seeing their old language through new eyes could make one reflect on their own bad behaviour from a past when it was not considered as bad.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

We seem to have forgotten that many of our common phrases began as slurs against homosexual men. To say that something "sucks" or "blows" for instance.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I'm heading in a different direction, I know, but I was told off (social media) for using the term wheelchair-bound. Apparently, at least in the UK, it's preferable to say "wheelchair user".

I'm fine with that. But the person did rip me on social media. The fact is, by using the term "wheelchair-bound", I meant zero offense. Sad fact is, I don't know whether anyone would choose to be in a wheelchair, and if a condition means one has to be in one, that is, well, "wheelchair-bound" seemed logical.

I'll respect those who ask that "wheelchair user" be used, but, although this is totally different to what we're discussing here (great topic, by the way), the fact is, sometimes you just don't know what terms are to be used. Obviously, you don't casually drop racial slurs - that's wrong! - but in a world where I can get in trouble for using the term "wheelchair-bound", it shows how difficult things can be at times.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

My worry is that the terms are changing so fast and I may not know the latest correct terminology.

Some are easy - so Spaz, cripple - they clearly are no longer acceptable - either as a description or an insult, although I have, in unguarded, high adrenaline moments caught myself using spaz to describe myself when I do something wrong.

But is disabled still acceptable? I genuinely don't know. There are now things that I changed to, in order to not be offensive once I understood that it was offensive, but the things I changed to have been changed on offense grounds.

Pretty sure I am causing offence all over the place without meaning to.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Somewhere, George Orwell weeps.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

It's possible, James. 

I think intent has to be judged. If I walk into a black person's house and throw around racial slurs, I deserve to be smacked straight up the gob!

But if I use the term "wheelchair-bound" during a discussion where I am actually advocating for disabled rights, do I really deserve to be torn to shreds? Sure, I'll get over it, but it can be a minefield.

There was even a bizarre policy years ago (well, discussion of a potential policy) in a place I worked, where the manager said "part-time worker" could be considered offensive in relation to a full-time worker. She was advocating changing it to "reduced hours worker". It's just odd.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

I have heard `Handicapable` used instead of
`Handicapped`

When i was at school in the 70`s it was deemed offensive
to refer to someone as `Black`, we were taught to say
`Coloured`
Now, in the 21st century that has been flipped, in fact
Benedict Cumberbatch had to apologise for using the word
coloured, as he was taught the same as a child.
Now we are bombarded with different names for
gender/trans gender etc, and dog help you if you
inadvertently use the wrong term.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

In South Africa, coloured is used to refer to a lighter brown skinned person and black is used to refer to a darker skinned person.

Took some getting used to after the reevaluation of the words in the UK
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Stephen Churay
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Guys, seriously. Are we trying to
rationalize how to conform to SJW speak?
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Paul Kimball
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Stephen if you donít use racial/sexual slurs then you already have at
least to some degree.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

if you donít use racial/sexual slurs then you already have at
least to some degree. 
--------------------------------------------
There's a difference here.  If I find out something offends or upsets someone, and so I don't say or do it around them, that's just being a polite and decent human being.

The PC/SJW thing is getting offended by things that you think are offensive to other people.  Dealing with people one on one, I have no problem with trying to avoid being an asshole.  When someone intrudes from outside into a conversation to try to police what is being said and how, the hole is on the other ass.
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Paul Kimball
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Steve I think I must be misunderstanding you somewhat.

Let's say that I routinely called jewish people grazzits.
We'll assume that much of the world knows that grazzits is a slur
but I disagree and use the term myself

So you over hear me saying this and intrude to let me know that it's an
offensive term
Surely that's not all it takes to be a SJW?

I would guess if you heard two white co-workers having a private
conversation where they called a black co worker a n(*(, you might say
something but I don't think that means you're a jerk.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 15 June 2018 at 12:51am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Paul, i have never heard `Grazzits`in the U.K.
Personally i find `Handicapable` a bit patronising, i
think it also implies that a person with a disability
can compete with an able bodied person.Depending on
the disability, i think it puts unfair pressure on
that person, as there are varying degrees of
disability, not all of them immediately obvious or
visible.
As for SJW rationalisation, again there are degrees,
if i call a Welsh person a Taff, or an American a
Yank, it is seen as a friendly nickname, but i would
never dream of calling a person from India a `Paki`
(which was the blanket term for people from that
region).Then there`s the `N` word, it`s seems
acceptable for black people to use it, but not white,
surely if it`s offensive, NOBODY should use it?
One thing that does reek of Orwellian nightmares, is
the gender thing of calling people who choose to be no
specific gender, depending on what day of the week it
is as `Ze` rather than he or she...what a minefield
that is.
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