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Mario Ribeiro
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Posted: 11 June 2018 at 10:35am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

My biggest problem with Captain America is not the uniform (ridiculous as it is). I just don't think that Evans has the right masculinity. Evans is a cool dude, but Cap should be the adult we all look up to (including the adults amongst us). A real man who is always right. To quote Frank Miller: "A soldier with a voice that could command a God... And does." I can't think of any actor today who could play him, though. The way heroes are written nowadays, they could all be played by Woody Allen, as far as I'm concerned. "Oh, I... I... I... I can't do it. I'm scared! I'm gonna die! I need to call my therapist!" Iron Man used to be an exception.

Edited by Mario Ribeiro on 11 June 2018 at 10:38am
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 11 June 2018 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

In the first film, I thought IRON MAN was a pretty damn good adaptation.
Fine update to his origin.... armor going through modifications as in the comics and solid supporting cast. Tony Stark as the self-described "genius, billionaire, playboy and philanthropist" worked well i the first film.

-C!
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Marc M. Woolman
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Posted: 11 June 2018 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

That Cap costume posted is the one I
like the best, bit he has only worn
that in two movies of the 6 he's been
in.

Edited by Marc M. Woolman on 11 June 2018 at 7:28pm
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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 11 June 2018 at 7:53pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

The thing that people are overlooking is that while some costume designs look really cool in comics, they don't translate well to real life and some even just look dumb onscreen. They change them to look a little more "realistic", yes, but also to make them look a little less silly.
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 12 June 2018 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Some really good cosplay and fan-made films say differently. 
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Daniel Gillotte
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Posted: 12 June 2018 at 10:34am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Marco, i disagree about Evans' Cap. He is strong, self assured and extremely able. He's certain but not arrogant. I'm continuously impressed by the way he plays that role.

But for my pick I'll say that I'm pretty impressed with their use of Vision. His warmth and "humanity" really come through.


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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 12 June 2018 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I saw something on Instagram that suggested that we'll be getting a more comic-accurate Cap costume in the next Avengers movie. Certainly more color-accurate where the boots and gloves are concerned. (BTW, Chris Evans says the chin-strap is itchy, and since it's neither necessary nor comic-accurate, can it go away, please?)

And can we give the Scarlet Witch a costume that suggests "Scarlet Witch," please? 
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Ted Downum
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Posted: 12 June 2018 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Daniel Gillotte: But for my pick I'll say that I'm pretty impressed with their use of Vision. His warmth and "humanity" really come through.

*****

I agree, Daniel. Paul Bettany was an ingenious casting choice for the Vision, I think.

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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 12 June 2018 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I'm with Charles Valderrama - the only adaptation in the Marvel movie pantheon worth noting to me is hermetically sealed within IRON MAN (the first one).

Everything else is needlessly off the rails.

(Not that Charles said all of this, but he singled out the one movie in the same way I would).

Edited by Mark Haslett on 12 June 2018 at 2:50pm
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 12 June 2018 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

1st -MCU Captain America is my favorite superhero PERIOD right now. 

It helps that Cap is my favorite character of all time, but Chris Evans does wonders with him.  Losing him for whatever reason will be a real blow.

2nd - I love the MCU Thor. His recent turn to a more humorous tone has made him even more appealing for me.  He can be all business when its time (ask Thanos), but the sense of humor (both his as a character and what the writers build around him) are very entertaining.

3rd - MCU Black Panther.  T'Challa has come to life in a magnificent way.  I used to pray for Chiewtel Ejiofor to get the role, but Chad Boseman is amazing.  Too bad Thanos dusted him....

Honorable Mention: Drax!  "I'll do YOU one better!  WHY is Gamora!?"
The fact that that line was improvised makes me believe Dave Bautista might be one of the superhero casting choices of all time.  Drax is a fantastic character.

"It's like a pirate had a baby with an angel...."  LOL!




Edited by David Allen Perrin on 12 June 2018 at 5:43pm
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 13 June 2018 at 12:40am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

My biggest problem with Captain America is not the uniform (ridiculous as it is). I just don't think that Evans has the right masculinity. 

------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------

I like Evans' performance and character a lot but at the same time I kind of agree with this. Casting a 40s style "man's man" could be seen as aggressive and unrelatable to modern audiences I guess (although that is kind of the point). I can't even think of a contemporary actor that could pull it off, maybe a tougher Armie Hammer?

There's also the patriotism issue, and how does a global audience deal with it. In much of the international marketing for the first film the words "THE FIRST AVENGER" were amped up and the words "AMERICA" and the stars and stripes, etc. were minimized. I think because of this the number one priority was: MAKE HIM LIKABLE. So, Evans Cap.

They did it pull it off wonderfully in my opinion and now he's an almost unanimously beloved character everywhere, but it was not a given. 
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 14 June 2018 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I'm honestly not sure what "more 'masculine' than Chris Evans" would mean. He plays Cap perfectly. It's the Cap I've known from the Mark Gruenwald days onward. Even if he doesn't say "Mister" all that often. 
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 15 June 2018 at 1:37am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

 Adam Schulman wrote:
...I'm honestly not sure what "more 'masculine' than Chris Evans" would mean...

Yeah, that was kinda confusing me, too. Chris Evans is no wimpy-looking guy. It's not like Captain America is being played by Topher Grace. Are you guys saying he isn't masculine enough thinking he should be as big as Arnold Schwarzenegger was in his prime?

I know the scenes in CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE FIRST AVENGER with Evans before the super soldier serum was done using CGI to make him look thinner, but I understood that the physique after the transformation was actually Evan's own. If so, he seemed pretty built to me.

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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 15 June 2018 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

I think they mean his personality should be stronger. More of a tough as nails take no BS attitude like the version from The Ultimates.
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Paul Kimball
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Posted: 15 June 2018 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

I think Cap's compassion and ccncern for others is a big part of his
personality, part of his strength. I think Chris Evans did a pretty good job of
capturing this.
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Benny Hasa
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Posted: 15 June 2018 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I actually think the films "get" the characters more than the current comics do. 

If I had to pick one character that transitioned to the screen with the best representation, I would go with Captain America.  Chris Evans brought the character to life in more ways than one.  He pretty much is the comic character personified. 

Notable mentions go to Dr. Strange, Tony Stark, and Loki. 
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 15 June 2018 at 11:43am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

 Christopher Frost wrote:
...More of a tough as nails take no BS attitude like the version from The Ultimates....

The version from THE ULTIMATES? Ugh! The guy who calls everyone "meathead" like he's Archie Bunker? The guy who literally kicks opponents when they are down? This guy...?


THAT guy is NOT Captain America, at least not the regular Marvel Universe version as he was portrayed for decades.

Maybe in today's political climate, sadly, this guy would be considered the real deal, but he is NOT the Captain America I read as a kid and respected through the years.

Despite the costume designs leaning more toward the Ultimates versions, the cinematic Marvel characters typically lean more toward the classic versions in terms of heroics and personality. Certainly this is true with Chris Evans's portrayal.

And personality-wise, he seems pretty darn strong, too!


Sorry, but Evans seems just fine to me in regard to personality, as well.



Edited by Matt Hawes on 15 June 2018 at 11:45am
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Mark Rand
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Posted: 15 June 2018 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

"The thing that people are overlooking is that while some costume designs look really cool in comics, they don't translate well to real life and some even just look dumb onscreen. They change them to look a little more "realistic", yes, but also to make them look a little less silly."
***

Agree completely. Captain America's movie costumes have been superb ever since Winter Soldier. Where the movies lose me is when the costumes don't resemble the originals at all, or are eschewed altogether. My rule is, the costume must be immediately recognizable, and look good on camera. 

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John Byrne
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Posted: 15 June 2018 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Spider-Man has shown us the costumes can be translated directly to the screen.
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 15 June 2018 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I think they mean his personality should be stronger. More of a tough as nails take no BS attitude like the version from The Ultimates.

------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------

Completely wrong. I despise that version of the character and, as I've said, like Evans version quite a bit. 

It's also not about how big he is, it's about what he projects. More in the "cool guy next door" neighbourhood than, say, "moral leader of men".

It's very subtle and, I'll say it again, I like what he did with the character a lot. No need to turn it into an extreme opinion.
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Mario Ribeiro
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Posted: 15 June 2018 at 6:36pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Rodrigo said it better than I could.
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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 15 June 2018 at 8:54pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

A few things here...

1) The Ultimates has had a larger influence on the MCU than many realize. For example, the version of Nick Fury you see in the movies is directly lifted from those books.

2) That particular version of Cap has proven to be fairly popular amongst comic fans and even led directly to the work Brubaker did on his run (his Cap was tougher and a little meaner than the normal comics version). I've seen many people comment on various boards and sites that they want the movie Cap to be less "Language!" and more ass kicker.

3) Some costumes look great in "real life", some don't. Sure, you can do a decent looking Spidey costume and have it look good but what about Electro? Can you see a guy walking around in a green and yellow bodysuit with a giant lightning bolt star on his head and not think that looks just a little bit silly? Not everything that looks good on the page is going to translate to looking good in reality. Wolverines brown & tan outfit could work, his blue and yellow not so much. Tweaking a costume design to make it look better onscreen is about making it look better, it's not a crime against humanity like some people treat it. As long as the essence of the character is there and the costume looks enough like the character, that should be enough for most of us. 
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 15 June 2018 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply


 QUOTE:
The Ultimates has had a larger influence on the MCU than many realize. For example, the version of Nick Fury you see in the movies is directly lifted from those books.

The Ultimates influence is largely overstated. There's some visual things, as well as things like Hawkeye having a family and Banner working on a Super Soldier project, but they've mostly stayed away from any of the Ultimates characterizations. Because those guys were assholes.

To hear Samuel L Jackson tell it, he wrangled a promise from Marvel to cast him as Nick Fury to make up for using his image without permission.


 QUOTE:
That particular version of Cap has proven to be fairly popular amongst comic fans and even led directly to the work Brubaker did on his run (his Cap was tougher and a little meaner than the normal comics version)

Brubaker's Cap seemed like a specific rejection of Ultimates Cap. He even made a point of writing a scene were Cap pooh-poohs the France-surrending jokes, as he fought alongside the French Resistance during WWII and knew what they had sacrificed. It was an obvious refutal of that Ultimates splash page.


Edited by Michael Roberts on 15 June 2018 at 9:30pm
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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 16 June 2018 at 7:20am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

The Ultimates influence was the direction they were going until Whedon became involved. He pushed for (and rightly so) a lighter direction that reflected the comics more and was instrumental in steering the ship in that direction. That doesn't change the fact that they were using the Ultimates, which were very popular at the time, as their initial template for the films. 

As for Brubakers Cap, yes he rejected the France thing but he still gave him a much stronger edge than he had before. Remember when Gruenwald had Cap shoot one of the Flag Smashers terrorists to save lives and how torn up he was about it? In Brubakers first issue, Cap was tossing terrorists off a moving train without a second thought. He had him behaving much more like the Ultimate version than the regular Cap we all know and love. But I digress, the point was that the Ultimate version of Captain America was hugely popular with a number of comic fans and I have seen a lot of people comment over the years that they wanted that particular version to be what we see on screen. 

Evans is pretty good in the role and manages to make the character believable which is hard to do because Cap is one of those characters that is too easy to make either overly cheesy (like the Adam West Batman) or too rah-rah-USA. Evans, and the writers, have done and excellent job at finding a balance and tone that work with the character.

'Nuff said.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 16 June 2018 at 10:12am | IP Logged | 25 post reply


 QUOTE:
The Ultimates influence was the direction they were going until Whedon became involved. He pushed for (and rightly so) a lighter direction that reflected the comics more and was instrumental in steering the ship in that direction. That doesn't change the fact that they were using the Ultimates, which were very popular at the time, as their initial template for the films.

The popularity of the Ultimates had already declined to the poor reception of Ultimatum in 2009, which had killed off a number of characters. It never recovered after that.

The movies borrowed a few ideas from the Ultimates, certainly. But they were very superficial, and anyone who suggests that the MCU used the Ultimates as the templates clearly never read the Ultimate line.

I'm also confused at the suggestion that it took Whedon to push the MCU in a lighter direction, as both IRON MAN and IRON MAN 2 traded on RDJ'S snark and charm, while THOR got a lot of mileage from Thor being a fish out of water on Midgard and Darcy and Dr. Selvig as the goofy sidekicks. INCREDIBLE HULK and CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE FIRST AVENGER were straight up action-adventures, and I would call neither of them dark.


 QUOTE:
As for Brubakers Cap, yes he rejected the France thing but he still gave him a much stronger edge than he had before. Remember when Gruenwald had Cap shoot one of the Flag Smashers terrorists to save lives and how torn up he was about it? In Brubakers first issue, Cap was tossing terrorists off a moving train without a second thought. He had him behaving much more like the Ultimate version than the regular Cap we all know and love.

No. Ultimate Cap was a jingoistic asshole. Brubaker did not have him behaving like that. What he did do was emphasize the grittiness of WWII and wrote Cap as someone who had gone through that. Arguably, that's a return to how Cap was written in the Golden Age, and even through the Silver and Modern Ages, before Gruenwald retconned that Cap had never, ever killed anyone throughout WWII.


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