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Topic: Joker Movie? - SPOILERS begin Pg. 15 Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 09 October 2019 at 10:54pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

It is left open and it is part of the joke.

It's not.

"What? Did you really believe that crap? Hahahaha. Did you really think we are that dumb? Hahahaha. Well, maybe we are! Hahahaha!"

Entering Bizarro World now.

The question that has to be asked is this: after Taxi Driver came out
and shocked everyone, were there any tangible improvements to the
way loners/mentally disturbed people were treated?

You seem to be confused about what role, purpose and responsibilities movies are supposed to have in our society.



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Mario Ribeiro
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Posted: 10 October 2019 at 6:12am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Okay, you don't read it as open, fair enough.
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 10 October 2019 at 6:57am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I think they go to great lengths to dismiss the possibility, even producing the adoption papers for Arthur to see.

But I'll also concede that, as I've said before, it's an intentionally difficult film to interpret and "determine" what's real or not.

So fair enough as well if you choose to interpret it as open. But for people that haven't and probably will never see the film I think it would be inaccurate for them to hold on to the idea that Batman & Joker are brothers in this film.


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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 10 October 2019 at 7:27am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

 Rodrigo castellanos wrote:
You seem to be confused about what role, purpose and responsibilities movies are supposed to have in our society.


No, I'm very clear on the fact that movies are generally a form of entertainment. I'm questioning why people think it's great to go see the film equivalent of gawking at a car wreck for entertainment, and what that says about us as a society.
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Jim Muir
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Posted: 10 October 2019 at 8:16am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

<<It is left open and it is part of the joke.
It's not.>>

They really milk the 'unreliable narrator' to breaking point on this, but ultimately it is unresolved.

Yes, Wayne denied any affair, and adoption papers and news clippings show him as adopted. Yet at the end of the movie he holds a photo of his young mother with a lovey message from TW, presumably Thomas Wayne.
It's deliberately ambiguous.
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 10 October 2019 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

No, I'm very clear on the fact that movies are generally a form of entertainment. I'm questioning why people think it's great to go see the film equivalent of gawking at a car wreck for entertainment, and what that says about us as a society.

Well, they're entertainment but they're also art. And I think it's more than valid to produce art that explores the darker sides of the human condition.

I'm pretty anti-war in general yet APOCALYPSE NOW, FULL METAL JACKET and THE THIN RED LINE are among my favorite films ever.

Yes, those films didn't end war but that's hardly Hollywood's job.

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David Miller
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Posted: 10 October 2019 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I interpreted the ending as implying the entire movie could have been Arthur's Batman-themed fantasy before killing that hospital worker. Which could explain why, for example, an insane woman would not only be allowed to adopt, but forced to keep the child -- after her lobotomy -- with a lecture about choices and responsibility, which is not how it works, not even in the dark ages otherwise known as the Eighties.
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Brian Hughes
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Posted: 10 October 2019 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Here is a question as I do not recall properly.

Was the whole film following Arthur for most every scene?

I seem to recall it did except for the Wayne murders.

This is what killed it for me, as that says that the Joker knows Bruce Wayne is Batman later.

This didn't ruin the movie for me altogether, but it destroyed the thought that the Joker's origin is different every time in his mind.  A conceit that is used in both "the Killing Joke" and "The Dark Knight" film.

If I am wrong, I will accept that.  But it is a point to consider.
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 10 October 2019 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Re: Brian

I've been discussing the film with (mostly civilian) friends all week and each one of them has a different theory or interpretation. I don't think a consensus will be reached on it, and there will be no "wrong" or "right" answers I guess.

I recall the same as you do on the film following Arthur every scene except for the Wayne murders. But I'm not entirely clear on what does that mean.

It doesn't kill it for me in the way you imply. Joker can know Batman's identity (I think in the comics it's been heavily implied or outright stated that he does but please correct me if I'm wrong) and still make up different origins whenever he pleases.

This time, it might be "funny" (in his mind) being somewhat responsible for Batman's existence, and that's the story he's thinking about with the psychiatrist (and we experience as the film) and never tells her because she wouldn't get the joke. 

Who knows?

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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 11 October 2019 at 12:25am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

The Wayne murders would have been in the news (like it was in BATMAN 1989), and the news story would certainly mention that Bruce Wayne, sole heir to the Wayne fortune, survived. So, I don't think it necessarily ruins the possibility that everything in the film was in the Joker's mind. It doesn't mean he knows Bruce will eventually become Batman, it just would mean he was aware of the double-murder of the Waynes, and that the child survived.
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Jim Muir
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Posted: 11 October 2019 at 3:38am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

<<This is what killed it for me, as that says that the Joker knows Bruce Wayne is Batman later.>>

I don't understand how this connection works - unless you're saying the whole movie was in his mind?

That wasn't my take, but its definitely one of those films left to interpretation.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 11 October 2019 at 5:33am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

& it uses ‘Rock & roll part 2’

A song that is black listed in the U.K. due to Gary Glitter being a multiple convicted paedophile who will likely have earned millions in royalties by the time he is released from prison because this song keeps getting used outside of the U.K.

A guy that reoffended multiple times after his first conviction. & fled to various countries to avoid capture.

Everything about this film annoys me.
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