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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132240
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| Posted: 26 May 2018 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | 1
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LINK
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Don Zomberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 November 2005
Posts: 2355
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| Posted: 26 May 2018 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | 2
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"Hey, maybe we don't have to live our lives bending to the will of tired, old, celibate white guys."
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: 26 May 2018 at 7:18pm | IP Logged | 3
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Saw an interesting comment on this today.
A woman can opt out of being a mother, but the father
can't opt out of being a father.
Should men have an opt out clause of being a father,
no visitation rights, financial obligations, etc.? Why
is it the women can be the sole arbiters of whether or
not to become a mother, but then men are forced by the
choice of the mother to become fathers.
Would it be considered progressive to give men an opt
out?
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 26 May 2018 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | 4
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Why is it the women can be the sole arbiters of whether or
not to become a mother
-----
Because they have to carry the child for nine months and can't just walk away from the child after it's born unless they abandon it or put it up for adoption.
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: 26 May 2018 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | 5
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Because they have to carry the child for nine months and
can't just walk away from the child after it's born
unless they abandon it or put it up for adoption.
---
So should men have an opt out?
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 26 May 2018 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | 6
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So should men have an opt out?
-----
The actual equivalent to "opting out" would be giving men the power to force women to have an abortion. I don't think anyone on either side is advocating for that. Once the child is born, the parents are responsible for its welfare.
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: 26 May 2018 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | 7
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The actual equivalent to "opting out" would be giving
men the power to force women to have an abortion. I
don't think anyone on either side is advocating for
that. Once the child is born, the parents are
responsible for its welfare.
---
Come on,you know that is crap "giving men the power to
force women to have an abortion."
Let's say that a guy is going to be a father and he is
all for it, but then they discover the child is going
to be severely deformed, no arms or legs. The mother
wants to keep it, the father doesn't want to deal with
with it.
If it were reversed, the mother could end it right
there. Why can't the man opt out? It seems like it
would fall in perfectly with progressive thinking that
men can choose to not be a father for the same reasons
the woman chooses not to be a mother. The financial
hit will be too much, the timing is wrong, birth
defects, or whatever.
The only difference is the woman has to carry the
child for nine months. After that he has to be
responsible for its welfare. And yet he is not allowed
to have any say in it before that?
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 26 May 2018 at 8:57pm | IP Logged | 8
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Come on,you know that is crap "giving men the power to
force women to have an abortion."
-----
If the child is not born, the parents don't need to support it. If the child is born, the parents need to support it. The choice being made is whether or not the child should be born. Not whether or not a child that is already born should be supported.
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: 26 May 2018 at 9:58pm | IP Logged | 9
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Looking into this further, it's actually being talked
about.
Sweden is considering it for one. And I am seeing
feminist comments saying they are all for it.
"I'm a staunch feminist, and I agree with their
decision to allow the man a choice to opt out
completely. In fact this should be enacted in every
western world."
"You ready for this, internet?? Ahem, AS A
FEMINIST...I completely support a man's right to opt
out of parental rights and child support AS LONG AS
the woman has equal right to an abortion. In other
words, give men the same window of opportunity, charge
the same financial and travel cost of getting an
abortion, and once paid, give him a court order
banning all future contact with the kid, as well as
freedom from support obligations."
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35723
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| Posted: 26 May 2018 at 11:20pm | IP Logged | 10
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Thomas Woods wrote:
| Why can't the man opt out? |
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They do. All the time. There are scores and scores of "fatherless" children, men who have abdicated their role in the upbringing of a child that they fathered be it through traditional means or financial. To say that there isn't already an "opt out" clause for men is myopic to say the least.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7605
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| Posted: 26 May 2018 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | 11
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Hear, hear Matt. & anyone that works with children knows that this can be devastating to the child.
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: 26 May 2018 at 11:56pm | IP Logged | 12
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You know I am talking about laws, not dirtbags who
abandon their children.
You also know I am conservative and that my view is
that people should have responsibility and not have
outs for the consequences of their actions.
A man who doesn't want a child due to his career, not
wanting to deal with it, it being the wrong time, or
whatever would be called all kinds of negative things,
and rightly so.
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