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Michael Roberts
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Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 4:21pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

These are labels invented to create in-groups and out-groups.  And frankly, I'm hoping that DNA testing will soon destroy this whole concept, as people realize that their own personal family histories are a lot more complicated than they probably think.  So yeah, I dismiss 'race' as a way to identify, because people should identify with their own histories, and the histories of their family.  In the past, that wasn't always accessible to people.  Now, through science, it is.  I reject 'race' as a way to identify because I don't think 'race' exists. 

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I agree with most of the individual points you make, but I disagree with your conclusion.

I don't identify with my families' history. I could care less. That's my parents' thing, not mine. I enjoy some of the cuisine, but I'm never going to visit their country of origin. I don't care. Why should I? I'm American.

I do identify as Asian-American. Why? Even though other Asian-Americans have different ethnic origins in countries with their own histories, we have many things in common. We've dealt with the stereotype of the perpetual foreigner, immigrant parents, friends thinking it's weird to take off your shoes inside the house, people who fetishize Asian culture, high expectations in school, and a myriad other of ways we have things in common with other Asians than non-Asians.

Does every Asian-American deal with every one of these things? No. Will this identity shift over time? Sure.

Latinx covers a wide geographical area, cultures, history, and skin colors, but they are all countries impacted by Spanish colonialism and Spanish Roman Catholicism. Don't you think that affects identity? Asian countries have their individual histories, but being geographically closer, they share more history and traits in common with each other than with non-Asian countries. Don't you think that affects identity?

It's great to say "race" doesn't exist and all, but people don't form categories based on DNA sequences. We use our eyes. We identify by physical characteristics. 
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Steve De Young
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Joined: 01 April 2008
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I don't identify with my families' history. I could care less. That's my parents' thing, not mine. I enjoy some of the cuisine, but I'm never going to visit their country of origin. I don't care. Why should I? I'm American.
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That's why I said, 'Their own histories' first.  Ideally, people should be their own person and figure out who they are, abstracted from all these other things.  And everybody just identifying as 'American' would be a huge step forward.  Then we'd have to move on to, "That doesn't mean non-Americans are somehow bad..."


Even though other Asian-Americans have different ethnic origins in countries with their own histories, we have many things in common. We've dealt with the stereotype of the perpetual foreigner, immigrant parents, friends thinking it's weird to take off your shoes inside the house, people who fetishize Asian culture, high expectations in school, and a myriad other of ways we have things in common with other Asians than non-Asians.
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Everything you list here is what I'm talking about when I say that 'Asian' is a label applied by people not from Asia.  What all Asian-Americans have in common, in your own words here, is how they are treated by people not from Asia...and that's all you list.  So I don't think we disagree as much as you may think you do.


It's great to say "race" doesn't exist and all, but people don't form categories based on DNA sequences. We use our eyes. We identify by physical characteristics. 
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Right, but grouping people together based on visible characteristics, like skin color, perceived ethnicity, dress, gender, age, etc. and then interacting with them based on that rather than as individuals, is pretty much the definition of prejudice.

If your point is that comes naturally to human beings, then I agree.  Humans evolved this tendency as a survival mechanism.  But at this point in our existence, all forms of tribalism are the cause of a lot more violence and evil than they is it helpful.  At one point in our species' history, forming tribes was a necessity for survival.  I think now, more likely, overcoming tribalism is such a necessity.

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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I recall a sci-fi novel (by Poul Anderson?) in which "White" is described as ranging from pale cream to dark brown, while "Black" is pale cream to dark brown.

Mind you, this novel was written back when there were three races -- Negro, Caucasian and Mongoloid -- and everyone was expected to find a seat in one of those slots. (As a kid in elementary school, when I was first taught this, I thought it was really cool that Native Americans and Arabs were the same race as me!)

Anyway, for as long as I can remember, I've described myself as "beige".

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Doug Centers
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Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 5458
Posted: 02 June 2018 at 9:52pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

"Anyway, for as long as I can remember, I've described myself as "beige"."

...

Olive for me.
I'm half Italian, and have been mistaken for middle eastern decent my whole life.

Well it's the Mediterranean so same vicinity anyway.
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Michael Sommerville
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Joined: 12 April 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 417
Posted: 03 June 2018 at 1:07am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I always classified myself as 1 shade darker than Albino, unless I have been in the sun then I am Baboon ass red.
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