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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 17 May 2018 at 4:22pm | IP Logged | 1
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Panini UK, the successor to Marvel UK, publish an Avengers reprint titled called AVENGERS UNIVERSE. The current issue (#6) is out today.
A letter writer called Chris Best made a point about the modern-day line-ups:
"I get the sense it's whichever characters are in vogue telling entertaining tales rather than tales being specifically about a team."
Does the letter writer have a point? He (or she, Chris could be short for Christine) was comparing previous line-ups to modern-day line-ups.
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Brian Miller
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| Posted: 17 May 2018 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 2
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It became the issue of puttIng the most popular characters in there shortly after Bendis took over. That’s how you ended up with Wolverine and Spider-Man on the team.
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 17 May 2018 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | 3
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Would you say, Brian - and it's far too late for my tired brain to think about Avengers history since 1963 - that putting the most popular characters in the team predated Bendis at any point?
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Greg McPhee
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| Posted: 17 May 2018 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 4
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The Giffen / DeMatteis / Maguire Justice League roster would never have cut it in today's market then.
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Dave Phelps
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| Posted: 17 May 2018 at 5:18pm | IP Logged | 5
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It's always been a mix. When the series started out, it was more about who was available. When the MU got big enough that you could pick and choose, it tended to be a mix of series characters and ones who were only to be found in Avengers (at least at the time), generally favoring the latter.
The Bendis run was the first time it "felt" like characters were in there because TPTB said "wait, Spider-Man and Wolverine are our top guys, why aren't they in there?" Popularity over story logic and all that. That said, I think most of the characters were there because Bendis wanted to use them and he tried to do a proper team book. (I didn't think he did a great job of it, but he tried...)
Hickman got caught up in the larger story he was going to tell to the point where it felt like most of the members were there to fill seats.
Waid's run comes across as an attempt to do a multi-generational thing, getting caught up in a crossover just as he was getting started, marking time with a more traditional crew (and Spider-Man (sigh)), and then more crossovers and we're done.
Haven't read Aaron's first issue yet, but flipping through it reminded me of Meltzer's Justice League, which isn't a compliment. I'm hoping I feel differently when I actually read the thing.
I think the larger problem with Avengers nowadays is that it gets caught up in so many events/line-wide restarts/what have you that the in between issues feel like they're marking time and there's little sense of character development beyond (maybe) a chosen handful.
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Robert Shepherd
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| Posted: 17 May 2018 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | 6
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I prefer teams to stay the same as much as possible with very little turn over. Look how long the Fantastic Four were fun to read yet stayed the same four.
I've always liked the Justice League more the closer the roster got to the original seven.
Avengers is a bit different as I liked the roster greatly during the Perez/Byrne runs. But I always seem to enjoy the roster more when it has the original members + Cap. Funny thing is I always "forget" Hulk was an original member, but he is more interesting as an unstoppable force of nature rather than a team player.
Teams like the Avengers are going to have a lot of turn over and I get that, but what bugs me is that, being an Avenger should be earned through a long track record of heroics. I don't like it when a new character is created and auto inserted into the group - Triathlon and Silver Claw immediately come to mind but there have been many.
I know it happens ALL the time though. To me it seems a new writer might take on an Avengers book or a Justice League book but only if they get to add in any random characters they want.
Or....more to the point of the OP, the roster changes are for "marketing" reasons instead of story reasons. The afore mentioned Spider-Man and Wolverine as Avengers are prime examples and never felt right.
Ironically, I always preferred Beast as an Avenger rather than an X-Man.
Edited by Robert Shepherd on 17 May 2018 at 6:28pm
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Brian Floyd
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| Posted: 17 May 2018 at 6:40pm | IP Logged | 7
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I can justify Spider-Man being an Avenger, somewhat.
But Wolverine is a known killer. And they're adding the current Ghost Rider to the team. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the current GR possessed by the spirit of a serial killer? I could *maybe* understand the Noble Kale version being on the team, but not Johnny Blaze or Robby Reyes.
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Eric Sofer
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| Posted: 18 May 2018 at 4:38am | IP Logged | 8
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There was that brief time that the Fantastic Four was Ghost Rider, the Hulk, Spider-Man, and Wolverine - but I think that was more a gag than any serious effort.
I never read Secret Defenders, but I thought its membership adjusted to who was popular at the time.
But for the most part, super teams should be either relevant to a theme (X-Men, Teen Titans) or the best available heroes. As Captain America said... being an Avenger is a privilege, not a right.
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Wallace Sellars
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| Posted: 18 May 2018 at 6:52am | IP Logged | 9
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I've mentioned before that the Avengers has become the least exclusive
superhero team in comics. Is it really an honor to be a member of a group that
"everyone" has been a part of at some point?
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Steve De Young
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| Posted: 18 May 2018 at 10:13am | IP Logged | 10
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Wasn't the original concept of the Avengers that it was a team-up book of Marvel's popular solo characters? As opposed to, for example, the FF who were a team from the get-go? As much as I was not a fan of the execution of Bendis' New Avengers, the concept was sort of back to basics. Take our most popular solo characters and have them team up to battle big threats.
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Mike Norris
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| Posted: 18 May 2018 at 10:39am | IP Logged | 11
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I came aboard in the middle of the Kree-Skrull war, so to me the team has always been a mix of the Big Three and the rest. That said Spidey, Wolverine and the Hulk just don't work for me as Avengers. They just don't fit the profile. Ms/Captain Marvel and Photon/Spectrum/Captain Marvel might be the last additions to the team that worked.
Edited by Mike Norris on 18 May 2018 at 7:36pm
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Dave Phelps
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| Posted: 18 May 2018 at 10:40am | IP Logged | 12
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Steve DeYoung wrote:
| Wasn't the original concept of the Avengers that it was a team-up book of Marvel's popular solo characters? |
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Not really. It was basically a team-up book of ALL of Marvel's active solo characters except Spider-Man and Doctor Strange (the latter of whom was still in try-out status IIRC). And by issue #16 having your own series was considered to be a vote AGAINST your continued participation in the group, which lasted well in the #60s.
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