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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 10:34pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Just to clarify, my "fatigue" remark was a personal feeling (and something I've read in a good number of IW reviews) but I wasn't trying to imply it's the general feeling of the moviegoing audience, it's clearly not.

In fact, the whole point was to praise the seriousness and commitment of the Marvel Studios team, especially compared to DC/Warner.

I like these films a lot, and think of them as a small miracle.


Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 30 April 2018 at 10:40pm
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 10:49pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Fair enough!

I don't blame you, Rodrigo.  I blame the media outlets who, for years, have said that we're reaching "audience fatigue" with superhero films.  That's clearly not the case.  At all.  On any level.  If we were, domestic returns on BLACK PANTHER wouldn't be what they were and INFINITY WAR wouldn't have crushed opening weekend records.  Love them or not, a decade after IRON MAN there is no sign that this train has run its course or that the audience is tired of these stories.  If anything, the audience is screaming for more.  
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 11:13pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I agree when it comes to Marvel. But saying there is no superhero fatigue is being too kind to DC/Warner, which was the point I was clumsily trying to make.

Justice League (the freakin' JUSTICE LEAGUE!!) was the lowest grossing DC/Warner film, I'd bet most people forgot about it already and it was just a few months ago.

So the audience is discerning, which is good. Marvel is doing a good job, nitpicks aside, and it's paying off handsomely while DC is terrible and deserve their poor reputation with the moviegoing audience. 

I really wish it wasn't like that, as I'm a much bigger DC fan than Marvel but at this point I think the only solution is to fire everyone involved and starting from scratch, with the best talent involved this time.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 11:31pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

 Rodrigo Castellanos wrote:
But saying there is no superhero fatigue is being too kind to DC/Warner, which was the point I was clumsily trying to make.

Justice League (the freakin' JUSTICE LEAGUE!!) was the lowest grossing DC/Warner film, I'd bet most people forgot about it already and it was just a few months ago.

But that's not superhero "fatigue".  It failed because it was a horrible movie, not because it was yet another superhero movie.  When Marvel can release one film in February that breaks all kinds of records and then release another film just three months later that shatters those records, there's no superhero fatigue.  Because DC/Warners can't for the life of them capitalize on not only their own success (Batman) but the success of the Marvel films?  That's on them, not on the audience.  There is no fatigue with regard to superheroes in film.  There just isn't.  There is simply ineptitude or excellence.  The audience can sniff out the difference.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 01 May 2018 at 12:43am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

The fact of the matter is that the general moviegoing public is now finally understanding why we (the cool kids) have loved this genre. Marvel has been executing their films with a lot of care and planning, over the past decade. DC is nakedly desperate to play catch-up and is failing miserably, because the long-term planning and the quality aren’t there. 

Heck, there are any number of studios which have tried and failed to get their own “cinematic universes” going, solely to chase after Marvel Studios pioneered the concept. Their failures are also a simply case of poor quality, rather than audience fatigue.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 01 May 2018 at 1:32am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Agreed!  I think there is an audience hungry for the Universal Monster movies, for example, but the recent reboot of the Mummy starring Tom Cruise that was supposed to launch a franchise instead landed with a rather loud thud.  Why?  Poor execution.  A movie that felt a part of a whole rather than simply a good, stand alone film. The Universal Monster films, DOA, felt forced.  The Marvel films feel organic, best represented by INFINITY WAR which was never the end goal a decade ago but feels "right" by all measures and where the Marvel films were always supposed to go. 
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 01 May 2018 at 1:36am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Heck, there are any number of studios which have tried and failed to get their own “cinematic universes” going, solely to chase after Marvel Studios pioneered the concept. Their failures are also a simply case of poor quality, rather than audience fatigue.

------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------------

Exactly. Nobody but Marvel can pull it off, which speaks very highly of them (if you'd asked me in 2008 I'd have said they couldn't pull it off either). Reading recent interviews with James Cameron and Steven Spielberg you can tell that they themselves don't really understand the phenomenon, and they know their blockbusters. Marvel Studios is a major breakthrough.
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 01 May 2018 at 2:04am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Head of Pixar Ed Catmull said it best in his book CREATIVITY, INC. (absolute must for creative types in any field):

If you give a good idea to a lousy team, they'll find a way to f*** it up. But if you give a mediocre idea to a great team, they'll elevate it or scrap it and come up with something better.

It's all in the execution, not the idea itself.

In conclusion, you give a rich, beautiful universe with great, iconic characters to the likes of Zack Snyder, Geoff Johns and David Goyer and this is what you get.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 May 2018 at 6:01am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Is it the fan's inability/unwillingness to take a break one of the main reasons why they want these characters (be it the comic book versions or the film/TV versions) to be broken and altered so much that it no longer resembles or has any of the things that made them fans of these characters in the first place? Is this why some fans turned pro take over writing and/or drawing a once all ages Marvel and DC superhero comic and turn said superhero comic (and said superheroes within the comic) into a completely different genre and aim said book at adults?

•••

I profess no special knowledge of the working of other people's brains, but in four decades in this Biz, I have noticed there is a layer of fans that closely resemble drug addicts. They hate their addiction, but they require bigger and bigger "hits" to achieve satisfaction -- often ending up completely unsatisfied, but unable to realize the fault is in themselves, not the comics.

These are the ones who demand "growth" in the characters. Real growth is absolute poison to serial fiction, especially fantasy like superheroes.

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Stephen Churay
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Posted: 03 May 2018 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Sadly, the versions of these characters in film and
television actually better depict why I became a fan,
more than the comics have. I often tell people, when it
comes to Marvel comics, the terrorists won. It hasn't
really felt like Marvel since 9/11. That was over 15
years ago. Also, the film's themselves don't seem to be
pushing any particular political or social commentary.
The same can not be said about the publisher.

Edited by Stephen Churay on 03 May 2018 at 4:11pm
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