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Jason Larouse
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 10:17am | IP Logged | 1 post reply


I'm not sure I'd want to watch a movie that used a comic book for its storyboards. As often as camera angles change in comics, it might make BLAIR WITCH look like it was shot on steadicam!

****

I think the original SIN CITY used some of the comic panels as storyboards. It also didn't have a screenwriting credit, just "based on the Frank Miller comics".


Edited by Jason Larouse on 30 April 2018 at 10:17am
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 10:30am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Robert Downey Jr in his opening scene in IRON MAN does a great Robert Downey Jr. Is it a great Tony Stark? In any event, Downey is so charming/funny that it's not hard to see why Hollywood took the easy way out (shocking, eh?) and decided to more or less Downey-fy all its superheroes since then. Even before that, Hollywood had one-liner syndrome tiresomely characterizing action heroes. 
++++++++

Exactly. I was just telling a friend this very thing. IRON MAN told an updated version of the origin story, but also gave Stark that quirky sense of humor. It worked well enough in context (despite not really being accurate to the comic character, who tended to be much more on the serious side), but quickly became the go-to style that the filmmakers could apply to many other characters so as to point out the absurdities of the MCU. 

This is surely also why Deadpool is so popular, since he constantly breaks the fourth wall to point out how silly this material is.


Edited by Greg Kirkman on 30 April 2018 at 11:07am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 10:55am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

In his earliest incarnation, Stark was based on Errol Flynn, so a degree of wit would seem a natural.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I think the original SIN CITY used some of the comic panels as storyboards. It also didn't have a screenwriting credit, just "based on the Frank Miller comics".

SIN CITY did, indeed, attempt to capture the look of the comics, even to precise duplication of certain panels. But that's not the same as storyboards, which, as the name implies, have a specific storytelling function, plotting action and movement.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 11:08am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Yep.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Is there something especially cinematic about Frank Miller's artwork? The movie version of 300 also exactingly captured much of that comicbook.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Frank is quite brilliant when it comes to generating the illusion of movement on a flat page.
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 3:41pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I wouldn't put Marvel and DC movies in the same bag.

Trying to put personal taste and opinions aside (which is impossible, I know), Marvel Studios has done a serious job creating a cohesive movie universe for 10 years and 18 movies, which is astounding.

I don't like all of them, and I think some fatigue is starting to kick in but 10 years ago I would never in a million years would've thought it possible.

DC, on the other hand, is a total irredeemable disaster in every way. The films are terrible, the characters and history not respected in any way, Warner executives are cynical opportunists and the directors, screenwriters and producers are talentless hacks.

Objectively ;)

 
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

"I don't like all of them, and I think some fatigue is starting to kick in....."

That whole 'fatigue' issue has to be questioned.

IW broke records that BP broke just a few months ago.

BP even moved UP from 8th in current box office standings to 5th!

The buzz for IW is phenomenal.....and Ant-Man and the Wasp are on it's way riding a wave of staggering good will with the public.  

And the writers of IW say next year's Avengers 4 is EVEN BIGGER than IW!

We might need to rethink the definition of fatigue.  You and others might suffer it.....but the movie going audience at large seems like its just getting started.


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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

My advice to those claiming fatigue: STOP watching the films and following the news about those films. I am sick of a number of Hollywood film genres, but I am not out there claiming they must end because I am personally sick of them.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

 Greg Kirkman wrote:
This is surely also why Deadpool is so popular, since he constantly breaks the fourth wall to point out how silly this material is.

No.  Deadpool did this at least a decade before Marvel films became a thing.  It's not a case of the tail waging the dog.  The dog (Deadpool) was wagging long before the Marvel movie juggernaut.  
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I swore I wouldn't jump into this thread, but here I am jumping in.  I gain nothing from it and probably lose more than I win, but whatever.  I'm a 51 year old man who is loving what Marvel has done with their cinematic universe.  Absolutely everything?  No.  But most of it?  Yeah.  I do.  To lump in what Marvel has done with DC and call the whole thing a bust is, I'm sorry, absurd.  If you feel it's done a disservice to the characters, I'm not going to argue your opinion.  But to quantitatively say that the movies are shite and disrespectful of the source?  Then we'll have a beef.  I don't think they are at all.  When Cap emerges in INFINITY WAR.  When Spider-Man first puts on his costume in HOMECOMING.  When you see a Marvel Two-In-One come to life.  When Thanos feels like the Thanos you met in the comics writ large on the big screen. Nitpick all you want.  Find fault where you want to find it.  But it's a celebration rather than an insult.  

I just don't get the hate or, at the very least, the dislike (but let's be real...it's hate).  It's abject dislike of anything that isn't absolutely locked into 100% fidelity to the source.  But this source, in this universe, is not locked in.  Accept it or not. Whatever.  But don't try to make the rest of us feel like poo for liking what you don't like.  We aren't "less than" fans, particularly this fan who has followed these characters for nearly 50 years.

Sorry.  As I said, I promised myself I wouldn't jump in but I felt there wasn't an alternative voice in the thread so I jumped in anyway.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

"Fatigue" walks hand in hand with familiarity. To civilian audiences, these movies are big and loud and over in two hours. To fan audiences, they're more like Mr. Creosote being fed more and more and more of what he craves, until...

Civilians can take a break. Fans can't.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Which MARVEL 2-IN-1 comes to life?
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Dr. Strange and Iron Man.

Thor and Guardians.

Take your pick.  Not specific translations of a specific story, but a melding of two characters from two different series into a singular story.  
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

When someone says this?  I just have to walk away...

 Joe S. Walker wrote:
I think comics just don't translate to screen all that well. So much free imagination on the page becomes ponderous on screen.

Comics don't translate to screen.  Seriously.  They were made for screen.  It just took screen to catch up with comic books to make them come alive in film. 
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 7:50pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

 David Allen Perrin wrote:
We might need to rethink the definition of fatigue.  You and others might suffer it.....but the movie going audience at large seems like its just getting started.

When a film rakes in $250+million on opening weekend and $630+million overall worldwide after just three+ days, it's ridiculous to even mention "audience fatigue". Doubly so when the last film to set records was in the same genre just a few months ago with BLACK PANTHER. "Audience fatigue" is a thing.  It's a cute "in the know" off-hand to express your own dislike of a thing.  But it's not evidenced in the box office for any Marvel film. Ever.  A decade on there is no fatigue and, quite the opposite, a hunger for it.  It's driving box office whether you like the films or not.  

To be clear, I was agreeing with David, not discounting his opinion.
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Bob Simko
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

On my (delayed) flight home yesterday, I re-read the INFINITY GAUNTLET
series, and I have to say that INFINITY WAR, to me, is thus far superior to the
comic book story...and it is certainly a comic book epic brought to life. The
introduction of Captain America was something right off a page, and the scene
of Captain America and Black Panther leading the battle in Wakanda was a
multi-panel sequence come to life. The battle of the heroes and Thanos on
Titan easily a double page spread in real time. I'm definitely 100% in agreement
with Matt on this one.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

No. Deadpool did this at least a decade before Marvel films became a thing. It's not a case of the tail waging the dog. The dog (Deadpool) was wagging long before the Marvel movie juggernaut.
+++++++++++++

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that Deadpool's snarky style was an invention of the movies. Just that his fourth-wall-breakage was a big part of his popularity to begin with, and is something which obviously survived his transition to film with great success.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 8:26pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

When a film rakes in $250+million on opening weekend and $630+ over all worldwide after just three+ days, it's ridiculous to even mention "audience fatigue". Doubly so when the last film to set records was in the same genre just a few months ago with BLACK PANTHER. "Audience fatigue" is a thing. It's a cute "in the know" off-hand to express your own dislike of a thing. But it's not evidenced in the box office for any Marvel film. Ever. A decade on there is no fatigue and, quite the opposite, a hunger for it. It's driving box office whether you like the films or not.
+++++++++++

It may be fatiguing to us, the longtime fans who know all the tricks and tropes of comic storytelling, but mega-crossover stuff like INFINITY WAR has never been seen by civilians before. So, yeah, I'd say no fatigue for the general public. It's all new to them!
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 8:43pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

I know the thread title said Marvel and not Mavel last night when I opened the thread. 
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David Miller
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 8:58pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

The public's fatigue with superheroes in general and MCU movies specifically will (almost) entirely be determined by the quality of future offerings. It's terrifyingly easy to imagine every May seeing the release of messy, chaotic variations on AVENGERS: SECRET WARS somehow released with polybagged trading cards, but while players like Fox and WB are content to strip mine the golden goose, Marvel Studios seems  committed to the careful long-term planning which is after all required to sustain an audience for three films a year set in the same superhero universe in perpetuity. (I doubt there's an Epic Studios a la Fox Searchlight on the horizon.)
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Jim Petersman
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply


I didn't see a lot of the earlier Marvel movies, but when Avengers came out I gave in and saw it. I had mixed feelings about it in the sense that I enjoyed the feel of it, but I just couldn't understand why they didn't go the distance and do the "real" characters. That annoyed me.

Then I watched Guardians and loved it, but still didn't like that they didn't use the real characters, even though I would have been hard pressed to tell you much of anything about them outside of the Korvac storyline.

Then Deadpool came along and I thoroughly enjoyed it, even though I never read a single comic with him in it. Ant Man, Civil War, Dr. Strange, Wonder Woman (!),  Ragnarok, and Black Panther were energetic and exciting. They celebrated the types of stories I remembered and loved, albeit with WHAT IF versions of the characters.

Not only did I really enjoy Infinity War (going back to see it again this week!), but it helped me to put the final nail in my comic-reading coffin. The Marvel characters I loved in the 80s are dead and gone. They aren't coming back. Ever. 

But I can recapture the joy and sense of wonder and excitement by watching (some) of the comic-related movies. I spent a couple of decades not being able to experience that feeling, so I'm glad I get to experience it again, even if only for a little while.

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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

"Fatigue" walks hand in hand with familiarity. To civilian audiences, these movies are big and loud and over in two hours. To fan audiences, they're more like Mr. Creosote being fed more and more and more of what he craves, until...

Civilians can take a break. Fans can't.

________________________________


Truer words have never been spoken. I have a question for you JB in regards to your post that I quoted. Is it the fan's inability/unwillingness to take a break one of the main reasons why they want these characters (be it the comic book versions or the film/TV versions) to be broken and altered so much that it no longer resembles or has any of the things that made them fans of these characters in the first place? Is this why some fans turned pro take over writing and/or drawing a once all ages Marvel and DC superhero comic and turn said superhero comic (and said superheroes within the comic) into a completely different genre and aim said book at adults?
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 30 April 2018 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

'Comic book movie' also isn't really a genre.  Neither really is 'superhero movie'.  The unique thing about superhero universes is that they manage to blend what in most other properties are diverse genres.  So you can have fantasy stories, sci-fi stories, espionage thrillers, dramas, comedies, etc. all in the same universe and bounce the characters off of each other.  I think that's the main thing that the MCU, for the most part, has gotten right.  I don't think that if Thor: Dark World, Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain America: Winter Soldier, and Spider-Man: Homecoming, if they were stand alone properties instead of all Marvel movies, would be considered to be in the same genre.  Its especially telling when you compare it to the DC movies, which only seem to know how to tell one type of story, even when its done well.  
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