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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 28 April 2018 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I just wanted to get this off my chest. One of my biggest pet peeves is that for some reason, "writers" think it's ok to give away all the plot points of a movie, including the climax. But it's ok, they had a tag "Spoilers Ahead". 

It is not ok in my book. Writes, try using your pea-brains and write an article that doesn't give away the farm.

I knew to stay away from public sites before seeing Avengers: Infinity, although a couple cats were let out of the bag because idiots asked revealing questions on Quora.

But I read an article after watching the movie and I'm still pissed at how many big moment details the writer gave away, just hours after the movie premier.

(and just to be clear, I'm ranting about articles and blogs, not forums like this one, where everyone plays by the rules)
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 28 April 2018 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Here's my review of the film which I originally posted on a private Facebook group:

AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR is an excellent movie. It has heart, soul and delivers a lot of action from beginning to end. 

It's also very nuanced. The bad guy is evil (obviously), but in his own mind, he justifies his wicked actions, even having a sympathetic moment or two. He's pure evil, but from a storyline perspective, you understand why he is doing what he is doing even if it can never be justified. 

The movie succeeds in giving all the heroes a decent amount of screentime. The plot is bleak, but there are moments of humour. The action rarely lets up for a moment, and it also features a wide variety of galactic locations (a bit like STAR WARS, I guess). Highly recommended!

It's not the most well-written review. It wouldn't get published in a film magazine, but I believe it gives away no spoilers. I haven't revealed any major plot points. I've been rather generalist. It might be a by-the-numbers review, but I didn't want to spoil it for Facebook friends. I am sure a more talented person, and I would hope newspaper/magazine/online writers are talented, could expand on what I have written without spoiling anything.
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 28 April 2018 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

My main gripe these days are those "suggested" articles I see on such sites as Yahoo, and Facebook, which want to spoil something from the movie in the very title of an article. I don't even have to have to click and read the article to have something spoiled!

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Bill Collins
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Posted: 29 April 2018 at 1:24am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Matt, i have experienced that with Infinity War, the
major spoiler was in the title of the article on
Facebook.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 29 April 2018 at 3:27am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I get it.  I really do.  But I also understand social media.  You can't blame it for spoiling you.  The entire reason social media exists is to discuss things as they happen, in real time.  So the onus is really on me.  I didn't visit Facebook all day today understanding that others have and can't wait to post their thoughts on AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR.  They can't control their impulses, but I can simply by not visiting a site I know has a high probability of spoiling me.  I really feel that's on me.  I have control of what I want to see, what I choose to look up and what I want to fill my idle time with.  I certainly can't police the world, but I can take two seconds to decide not to check for updates on Facebook.  If I don't look at it during a time in which I don't want to be spoiled about a movie, then I'll be that much richer for it...right?

At the end of the day, own what you click on rather than blaming the click bait.  You KNOW they want you to click on it given the headline, right?  So don't.  But if you do?  Not their problem.  
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 29 April 2018 at 5:44am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Matt Reed, I know you are not naming me so I take no personal offense. But my opinion is not in alignment with yours. 

I think a journalist has a responsibility to present their reviews or point of views in a reasonable fashion. But don't give away every single plot point of a movie. One article I read listed bullet points of every single character who died. 

I don't know....I guess I wouldn't want to spoil the movie for my readers (if i were a reviewer or blogger). I think I would at least wait until opening weekend was done.

You are right in that I can't police it, and I can choose to read or not to read, but come on, don't "blame" the reader. Thats like blaming a woman who goes to a night club to dance but gets harassed by a guy. She is not to blame for his poor behavior.

I just happen to think spilling the entire plot of a movie, scene by scene, so soon after release is poor behavior as well.




Edited by Robert Shepherd on 29 April 2018 at 5:47am
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Michael Sommerville
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Posted: 07 May 2018 at 3:35pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Is it not more like going to a night club to dance and seeing people drink. You go for one aspect of the experience but should not be shocked when you see another. 

Like at the club it is a persons choice to stay or leave. Reviews, like a lot of writing, can be aimed at specific types of readers. Some people read for spoilers some just want a general thumb up or down. I think the reader is responsible for what they choose to read, more so when , spoilers ahead, is stated.

I think everyone knows that the only way to not be subject to any spoilers in the internet age is to avoid any review or discussion on the movie.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 07 May 2018 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

 Robert Shepherd wrote:
I think a journalist has a responsibility to present their reviews or point of views in a reasonable fashion. But don't give away every single plot point of a movie. One article I read listed bullet points of every single character who died.

But I'll bet that the tip was in the headline, right?  You knew what you were getting when you clicked on it, no?  I do.  I know every time.  That's why I don't click on 90% of the bait that is sold to me.  So let them spoil something.  Let those sites reveal something you don't want to be revealed.  So what?  I have control.  I can choose not to click on something that will obviously spoil a thing because it's right there in the headline.  

C'mon.  We're all adults.  We can figure this out for ourselves.  
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Jim Petersman
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Posted: 07 May 2018 at 8:14pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

There's no way journalists/bloggers/vloggers are going to risk "losing" clicks by not capitalizing on a hot property. The idea of what's right or wrong goes out the window when revenue is involved. Matt's absolutely correct; we will have to police ourselves.
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 07 May 2018 at 8:18pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Surprisingly enough, I was able to see Avengers spoiler free a week after it opened.  I didn't go out of my way to avoid spoilers, but I didn't click on articles about the movie either.  I just scrolled past anything that said "Avengers" in it, especially on Facebook.
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 07 May 2018 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

My beef all comes down a personal philosophy. 

Just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be done.

I fully admit that I am a dying breed in the world. There are just too many people who think the opposite, that if it can be done, it absolutely must be done, regardless of what "it" is. Further, it is "my" right to do it.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 07 May 2018 at 10:46pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Then don't click on their site.  

Seriously.

Simple as that.  

There have always been places that have spoiled what you don't want to know.  Started with newspapers, then transitioned to gossip rags, then moved to entertainment shows like ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT, then to the internet writ large.  But in all those cases, every single one, you had a choice to watch or read it...or not.  To simply cry out in the wilderness that there are places that spoil things for you is, I'm sorry, absurd. 

We're unique here in that we warn you, but that's a courtesy rather than an expectation because this isn't the way the world works.  But I've said it  before and I'll say it again: you have a choice to click on an article that is obviously spoiler-bait. It's there in the headline.  To shit on the writer for spoiling you when they warned you before you clicked is, really, on you.  If you then cry foul that you were spoiled?  Seriously?  C'mon.  Again. We're all adults.  
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 07 May 2018 at 11:10pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

There are people who focus on the "what" of a situation and those who focus on the "why" of a situation.

I'll leave it at that. We'll agree to disagree.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 07 May 2018 at 11:12pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Uh...ok.  Makes no sense to me, but...ummm..fine...I guess.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 07 May 2018 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

I went back to your original post because I really wanted to understand where you're coming from.  Maybe I got it wrong. Maybe it was my fault for not understanding what you were putting out there.  And then I get to the premise:

 Robert Shepherd wrote:
One of my biggest pet peeves is that for some reason, "writers" think it's ok to give away all the plot points of a movie, including the climax. But it's ok, they had a tag "Spoilers Ahead".

So your problem isn't open talk of spoilers, it's talk of spoilers...at all.  Even when the writer warns you that they're going to be discussed to help you (as someone who doesn't want to be spoiled at all) to stop reading and move on, hence the WARNING. So writers, journalists, authors et al shouldn't even discuss anything that could possibly be a spoiler at all?  Ever?  Even when they warn you beforehand that the discussion could possibly contain spoilers?  That even giving that warning is anthema to you because you think that all discussion about a given thing should not, at all, contain any information that could possibly spoil someone from the experience of watching a thing for the first time...even when there are obvious spoiler warnings?  

Seriously?  
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 07 May 2018 at 11:45pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

You think it's ok to give out the entire plot mere hours after a movie has opened? You're ok with a writer giving away every single twist and curve just because they can? You're ok with them writing anything at all with no personal filters or restraint because they leave a warning?

Seriously?

See, I can play that game too. 

It's ok to have opposing opinions. But try not to berate my opinions, even if you disagree. I'm content in knowing we disagree on this and will never see eye to eye.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 07 May 2018 at 11:56pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

 Robert Shepherd wrote:
You think it's ok to give out the entire plot mere hours after a movie has opened? You're ok with a writer giving away every single twist and curve just because they can? You're ok with them writing anything at all with no personal filters or restraint because they leave a warning?

Yes.  They gave you a warning. They told you don't read ahead unless you want to be spoiled. The onus is on you at that point.  

How hard is that to understand?
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 08 May 2018 at 12:18am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

We haven't had someone get up in arms about it here, but let's say that a thread is created here about Movie X in August.  When it opens the following June, I adjust the thread title to "Spoilers start page 5" and inform the membership that they can discuss the film without inviso-text. Do you honestly get upset at the first person who saw Movie X opening night discussing every detail of the film on page 5, which they often do especially when it's a Marvel film?  Do you feel it's out-of-bounds?  If not, how is that any different than an article that clearly states "spoilers" either in it's headline or opening paragraph?  
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 08 May 2018 at 1:10am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Well for one, there is a big difference between a small group of individuals meeting at the water cooler vs a publication that has the potential to reach many thousands with one click.

I also think the folks on this forum, even when the flood gates are opened still have personal restraint and don't try to give away the entire movie. Sure, major plot points may be discussed but they are not discussed with the intent of ruining the movie for others. It's all with the intent of having a discussion.

Folks in a book club don't spill the beans until they know the rest of the club has had a reasonable chance to read the book. There is always an unwritten grace period. Mostly, keeping your mouth shut it is about personal restraint.

Internet writers of the group I've complained about are doing it for the clicks, are doing it without any restraint what-so-ever, and as Jim stated above, "The idea of what's right or wrong goes out the window when revenue is involved."

As I've stated up thread, I have an opinion - I think it's poor behavior. Poor behavior reinforced by the almighty quest for clicks. Poor behavior that is further reinforced by the population that click on the bait. Poor behavior that is only going to get worse as younger people grow up in a world without personal restraint.

Years ago, it used to be if anyone gave away so much of a movie they were chastised for their lack of tack and restraint. Now it seems, tack and restraint are completely thrown out the window.

So my whole beef isn't about the semantics of what an internet writer posts, its really about the loss of personal filters that seems to be entirely ok by the general population. 

My point isn't about the fact that a reader has the power to click or not to click. Thats obvious. My point was about the growing philosophy that's it is entirely ok to cast away personal restraint and filters as long as you give warning. That is just ass-backwards to me.

I'm sure I was not clear about my intent in my original post as I wrote that at the height of my frustration.

Beyond that, I can't really explain it in any further detail. I'm just not smart enough to elaborate or perhaps too lazy to do so. 

I don't expect to change anyone's opinions so I assume we've spent this thread in it's entirety. I, for one, am ready to move on.




Edited by Robert Shepherd on 08 May 2018 at 1:12am
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David Miller
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Posted: 08 May 2018 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I remember when Roger Ebert received complaints for spoiling the end of INGLORIOUS BASTRERDS in his review, he argued that the movie had been shown at Cannes months before its late summer general release, and therefor fair game since everybody should have heard by then. 

I've learned enough to avoid social media, but nerds especially have a tendency to pull the same stunt. In conversations about INFINITY WAR, people are happily dropping AVENGERS UNTITLED INFINITY WAR SEQUEL spoilers that "everybody" knows, if they've been reading casting notices and studying script leaks or whatever. Possibly it's mostly speculative ignorance wrapped in an authoritative tone, but if correct, I didn't want to know. So I guess I have to avoid reading comments on movie reviews to avoid spoilers for films whose titles haven't been released yet. 
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