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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1411
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| Posted: 08 April 2018 at 4:49am | IP Logged | 1
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It's almost too bad the main cast met for the first time in Star Wars. If not, Empire could have pulled a Temple of Doom and be set before Star Wars. You'd get a great film and not mess with the original ending.
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John Byrne
Imaginary X-Man
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 115974
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| Posted: 08 April 2018 at 5:20am | IP Logged | 2
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It boggles my mind ever time I hear EMPIRE referred to as a "great" film. Bigger, louder, shinier, yes. But great?EMPIRE serves to underscore the fact that much of what was so brilliant about the original film sprang from its limitations. Once Lucas was off the leash, the limitations gone, the bloat set in.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10471
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| Posted: 08 April 2018 at 7:40am | IP Logged | 3
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The kindest comment I have about EMPIRE is that in my opinion it's far and away the best of all the sequels and prequels.
Beyond that, as a "Star Wars" movie, EMPIRE is... well, if you can't say anything nice...!
Although it's impossible for me, and likely untold billions of other people, to view EMPIRE as a purely stand alone film, i.e., as if you'd never before seen the original movie, even trying to put my brain in that mode, I don't see EMPIRE as a particularly excellent bit of film-making... let alone great.
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John Byrne
Imaginary X-Man
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 08 April 2018 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 4
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As I have said, when I heard the title of the second movie was THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, my first thought was "With WHAT??"(Actually, that was my second thought. My first was "What a clumsy title!") What the first two sequels did, basically, was snip off the end of the first film, and pick up more or less right after the destruction of the Death Star, as if the rebels had to flee after accomplishing this victory. It did not help that their flight looked like footage from BATTLESTAR GALACTICA.
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John Byrne
Imaginary X-Man
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 08 April 2018 at 9:06am | IP Logged | 5
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I think it was less a case of Lucas feeling trapped than it was his liking and sticking with the volcano idea, but having to reshape the specifics of the story around it. •• Whether he FELT trapped or not, he was trapped. To change that part would be to admit everything was not worked out from the start. (And in this case we most definitely know it was not, since the "walking iron lung" aspect was an afterthought.)
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15700
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| Posted: 08 April 2018 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 6
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Whether he FELT trapped or not, he was trapped. To change that part would be to admit everything was not worked out from the start. (And in this case we most definitely know it was not, since the "walking iron lung" aspect was an afterthought.)+++++++
The really strange thing is that there are any number of instances of him in print and on film making contradictory statements! If he wanted to preserve the myth that it was all planned out, you’d think he’d at least be consistent with what he said to the press!
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10471
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| Posted: 08 April 2018 at 11:22am | IP Logged | 7
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I'm reminded of a line from LAWRENCE OF ARABIA: "A man who lies merely hides the truth; but a man who tells half-lies has forgotten where he put it."
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4950
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| Posted: 08 April 2018 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 8
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For me, EMPIRE is a great film. I was 12 and had not seen anything like it in my life. Same was true of STAR WARS.
Empire did things no other film I had seen did - the heroes pretty much lost every scrape they got into, it ended on a cliff hanger - this really was Saturday morning serial stuff on the big screen (I know those started on the big screen, but I’d met them on TV in the six week school holiday).
I’d seen films where heroes lost before, but not like this. For me, EMPIRE is every bit as good as STAR WARS, even accepting that it retcons a lot of that original film. I can squint and make it fit. Even JEDI I can squint and make it fit.
The prequels don’t fit at all. Set too close with Anakin turning too late.
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