Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
Music
Byrne Robotics > Music Page of 2 Next >>
Topic: Too Many Subgenres? Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 11969
Posted: 26 February 2018 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Many moons ago, on an old forum (early 2000s), I had to mediate when an argument got quite nasty between two metal fans. The individuals could not agree on whether AC/DC are a hard rock or metal band. I give up!

I have seen similar arguments on the 'net. As a huge fan of metal and rock, I tend to be lazy with designations. Coming from someone who attaches great importance to comic terminology, that may surprise you, but with music, I find that there are too many subgenres, too much terminology. And when pedantic fans start bickering over designations, rather than enjoying the bands and discussing music, I think we have a problem.

For example, I like Black Moth. I guess I refer to them as a metal band (they cite the likes of Black Sabbath as influences). But others will describe them as stoner rock, doom metal, etc. I sort of rue the day where we created subdivisions and designations for each one. It can get complex. And when the pedantic/anal fans come out of the woodwork, you can often get into a situation where someone steers the conversation into terminology and designation rather than the merits of a band.

I mean, I'd rather discuss Black Moth's career/music. I don't particularly wish to discuss terminology, whether they are stoner rock or not, whether they are doom metal or not, whether I can simply refer to them as a metal band or not, etc. I simply wish to refer to them as a metal band (or rock band if you prefer) and get on with discussing their work.

Also, and perhaps there is a parallel with comic fans, there are some who don't seem to want to listen to a particular subgenre. "Oh no, I don't like stoner rock, no way!" Or, "I tell ya, I'm into doom metal mainly, but to hell with "funeral doom".

I think too many subdivisions is silly, anyway. Woe betide the poor soul who is tasked with writing a heavy metal encyclopedia. "Oops, I forgot to include an entry for funeral doom, but as I have written an entry for Doom metal, that's fine."

I think the more subdivisions/subgenres we create, the sillier it can get. But maybe I'm wrong.

Thoughts?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10295
Posted: 27 February 2018 at 2:00am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

As someone who likes Prog, Classic Rock, Metal, NWOBHM,
Symphonic Rock,Thrash Metal to name a few, the subgenres
help me when reading reviews to give an idea if that
album is for me.Yes, it can get confusing and a bit OTT
when a band is categorised as `Symphonic, Folk, Death
Metal`!
Subgenres of subgenres!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 11969
Posted: 27 February 2018 at 5:07am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

It wouldn't be a problem, Bill, for us if we were discussing music.

It's only a problem when a) pedantic fans get into arguments about semantics, and b) rigid fans refuse to check out a subgenre.

I see a parallel with comics, e.g. someone saying, "Oh, I'll check out sci-fi comics, but not sci-fi superhero comics." 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10295
Posted: 27 February 2018 at 7:26am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

True!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 11969
Posted: 27 February 2018 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Bill, you mentioned subgenres of subgenres. Well, I think we need to create a new word. What about it? ;-) 

It feels like we could get ourselves listed in the Oxford Dictionary.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10295
Posted: 27 February 2018 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

`Pedantitle`? ;-)
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 11969
Posted: 27 February 2018 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Works for me, Bill.

How much further can we subdivide? After "funeral doom", what comes next? Casket doom? 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10295
Posted: 27 February 2018 at 10:39pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Symphonic, Folk, Funeral, Doom?
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 782
Posted: 28 February 2018 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I don't know how anyone can keep up with the proliferation of metal subgenres. Or what separates one from another (rhythm, tempo and vocal style, I guess).

What amuses me is how few of them, outside of the doom metal bands, sound at all like Black Sabbath. Soundgarden, a "grunge" band, sounded a lot more like Sabbath than any of the thrash bands!! (Hell, they sounded more like Sabbath than Iron Maiden does, and I'm not dissing Maiden -- or the '80s thrash bands -- at all. Music styles develop and end up in places pretty distant from their origins, inevitably. The John Coltrane Quartet didn't sound much like the Louis Armstrong Hot Fives and Sevens.)
Back to Top profile | search
 
Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 782
Posted: 28 February 2018 at 7:44am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Oh, and if we're defining "metal" in terms of its distance from rock music's roots in rhythm & blues, then AC/DC is hard rock (like Led Zeppelin), not metal. But no band called itself "metal" until the late '70s, as far as I know.

Even some Sabbath songs would be "hard rock" rather than "metal" given this definition.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10295
Posted: 28 February 2018 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I`m not sure if any band called themselves Heavy Metal
until Sounds magazine christened the proliferation of
new rock bands at the end of the 70`s `The New Wave Of
British Heavy Metal`? I know Steppenwolf used the lyric
`heavy metal thunder` on Born To Be Wild,but in the mid
to late 70`s U.K. we called it Heavy Rock.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 11969
Posted: 28 February 2018 at 10:22am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I understand some designations, e.g. it's right to describe Alestorm as "pirate metal", but I prefer the all-encompassing term "metal" for some. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10295
Posted: 28 February 2018 at 11:44am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Hmmmm, were Running Wild the first Pirate Metal band?
Judas Priest had the track Metal Gods on British Steel
which was released in 1980, was that when `Metal` became
a genre?

Hair Metal sums up a specific style and era.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 11969
Posted: 28 February 2018 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Yes, I would say Running Wild were the first "pirate metal" band.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 6045
Posted: 03 March 2018 at 12:55am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

I understand some designations, e.g. it's right to describe Alestorm as "pirate metal", but I prefer the all-encompassing term "metal" for some. 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It's right to describe Alestorm as "awesome".

Though my favorite "pirate" song is Airship Pirates by the steampunk band Abney Park.

I also like symphonic metal, ie Avantasia, Nightwish (though not the era when Anette OIzon was on vocals), Kamelot, Epica, Northern Kings (which is a supergroup), and a multitude of other bands. I'm always on the look out for symphonic metal bands to check out. 


Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10295
Posted: 03 March 2018 at 1:57am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Brian,try Within Temptation(The Unforgiving,Mother
Earth The Silent Force albums) and
Amaranthe(Influenced by Nightwish?).I liked Annette
Olzon in Nightwish and saw them live with her, she was
great, i just think some of the material was a bit
average during her tenure.Floor Jansen though, is
amazing! Her live rendition of Ghost Love Score from
the Wacken Festival is a tour de force.
Another artist you may like is Ayreon, he`s a Dutch
Prog artist who releases sci-fi themed concept albums
using numerous vocalists to portray different
characters,Floor Jansen,Simone Simons,Fish,James
LaBrie,Bruce dickinson, Neal Morse etc and a variety
of musicians.The Human Equation is brilliant, and has
a nice twist at the end!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 11969
Posted: 03 March 2018 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Nightwish were featured in the latest issue of METAL HAMMER. In fact, the current issue is female-centric - and well worth a purchase.


Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10295
Posted: 03 March 2018 at 10:57am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

I bought the female-centric issue of Classic Rock
magazine too! Floor Jansen is such a brilliant singer!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 11969
Posted: 03 March 2018 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Oh, I missed that (I did see it advertised). I am sure it may still be on sale. Thanks!
Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10295
Posted: 03 March 2018 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Doubt it Robbie,the new issue went on sale last week,
100 Best Albums of the 90`s cover.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 11969
Posted: 03 March 2018 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Ah, well, there may be a back issue service (most have them now).

Oh, and Doubt It Robbie sounds like a band. ;-)
Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10295
Posted: 03 March 2018 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

myfavouritemagazines.co.uk should sort you out Robbie!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 11969
Posted: 03 March 2018 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Thank you, Bill. :)
Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10295
Posted: 03 March 2018 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Also, check out the Kiss thread for links i should have
added here! Too much vodka on this cold night!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 11969
Posted: 03 March 2018 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I'll have a pint of vodka later, I'm sure! ;-) 
Back to Top profile | search
 

Page of 2 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login