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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2188
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| Posted: 19 February 2018 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 1
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I have a question for JB. Could a major change be made to a book like the FF, without changing the basic premise of the book? For example, could a creative team decide to increase the membership of the FF beyond the original core four members like Hickman did in his FF (Future Foundation) series, but while still keeping the title of the as "Fantastic Four", but adding another word to the title and to the name of the team to indicate that the team roster is no longer limited to just the original core 4 characters? Could the book and team be called either "Fantastic Four INC","Fantastic Four Foundation","Fantastic Four Unlimited" (which was the name of an FF spinoff anthology title from the 90's),or "Fantastic Four Plus/+"?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132263
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| Posted: 19 February 2018 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | 2
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I think the safest answer is "no."Usually, a series is successful because the creators have caught lightning in a bottle. Look at the rebirth of the superhero genre in the Fifties. An explosion of characters, many in-name-only revivals of successful characters from previous decades. But not all the revivals were successful. The Flash, yes. Green Lantern, yes. But Hawkman struggled, and the Atom just never quite made the grade. Groups like the Sea Devils and the Metal Men (a personal favorite) didn't catch on. Marvel entered the fray with the Fantastic Four, a huge success. Spider-Man also. The Hulk, not so much. Thor and Iron Man did better, but it was the Avengers that really pulled it together. X-Men traveled a hard road to eventual cancellation. In a nutshell, the original successes were the big successes, and what came after -- especially thru the Seventies* -- tended to be dull thuds and flashes in the pan. Did anyone really expect a huge success for OMEGA THE UNKNOWN? SKULL THE SLAYER? WARLORD? Or, later, the "TV Movies" of the "New Universe"? DC, through "growth and change" (not to mention "relevance") eventually dug themselves a whole so deep only explosives could be seen as a solution. (And having done that they assigned most of the people who had caused the "problem" to engineer the ongoing "solution.") Bottom line: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. ------------ * The predominant attitude when I joined Marvel was "F*ck it! It's all going to be over in five years anyway!" Much of what was being done had a kamikaze feel to it.
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4721
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| Posted: 19 February 2018 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 3
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Bottom line: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
******** If only THAT could be the GOLDEN RULE. Writers should be challenged to lay out stories without changing the BASIC groundwork of a series. (No revisions!!)
-C!
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4511
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| Posted: 19 February 2018 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | 4
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I had some copies of Los Quatro Fantasticos, El Hombre Araña and Patrulla X from Mexico. I thought they had a good format, a bit like the science-fiction digest in size. I kept looking for Harvey comics in espanol... 'Casper, El Hijo Muerto', 'Ricardo De Los Muchos Pesos', or at least 'Lotta, Niñita De Los Grande Mass'. Sorry, I've read so many Love & Rockets comics I couldn't resist.
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I never got the feeling the creators of Teen Titans Go hating on the characters or situation. It seems more anything for a laff. I still like the straight version as much as ever.
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Warlord was very popular with some guys I remember in school who didn't like most comics. They liked him, and of course Conan, Tarzan/Korak, and some liked Sgt. Rock, also Mad and Warren/Heavy Metal. They were happy to give me all Superheroes they felt they'd outgrown. So Warlord seemed to work quite well with non-regular comic readers for awhile.
* Sea-Monkeys not exactly as shown.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 19 February 2018 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 5
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He started down the wrong path when Stan & John Romita made him into Marvel's version of Archie Andrews with Gwen and Mary Jane interested in him.
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As I pointed out in another thread, this happened while Ditko was still on the book. You had older woman, Betty Brant, and Miss Popular, Liz Allan, fighting over Peter’s attention, with an unseen, but labeled as gorgeous, MJ waiting in the wings. The idea that Peter was attractive to women happened relatively early.
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2291
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| Posted: 19 February 2018 at 4:59pm | IP Logged | 6
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The predominant attitude when I joined Marvel was "F*ck it! It's all going to be over in five years anyway!" Much of what was being done had a kamikazefeel to it.________________________________________
I have to wonder if that's been the thinking ever since then too. It would explain a LOT!
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John Cole
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 March 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 504
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| Posted: 19 February 2018 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 7
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Remember back in the 80's when there was a female version of Peter Parker hanging around on the fringes?Deborah Whitman.
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Brian O'Neill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 November 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 1964
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| Posted: 19 February 2018 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 8
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Yeah, I remember, although I didn't really start folowing AMAZING and PETER PARKER until just after she was dropped from the storylines. Never did read the issue where they wrote her out.
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Adam Schulman
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Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1717
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| Posted: 19 February 2018 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | 9
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I have to wonder if that's been the thinking ever since then too. It would explain a LOT!
***
I tend to think it's been more "let's squeeze every dollar from our existing readership via crossovers and Event Series" more than "it's all over soon." When the Direct Market saved (or "saved") superhero comics I'm sure the "it's all gonna be over soon" mentality vanished.
At least series like OMEGA THE UNKNOWN tried to be interesting and different (we miss you, Steve Gerber). When was the last time Marvel or DC tried to do something genuinely different and daring that wasn't under the Epic, Vertigo or Wildstorm labels? Grant Morrison's ANIMAL MAN? (Well, I'd say FINAL CRISIS too, but the scheduling mucked it all up.)
And I mostly agree with JB about "growth and change" and yet Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing has become an Official Part of the Batman Mythos that "everyone" seems to like or at least accept. It even made its way into the Bruce Timm Batman cartoons. So I guess it "worked."
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132263
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| Posted: 19 February 2018 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | 10
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And I mostly agree with JB about "growth and change" and yet Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing has become an Official Part of the Batman Mythos that "everyone" seems to like or at least accept. It even made its way into the Bruce Timm Batman cartoons. So I guess it "worked." ••• If you want Batman to be fifty.
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Brian O'Neill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 November 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 1964
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| Posted: 19 February 2018 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | 11
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Well, I never believed "Saint E. Nelson Bridwell's Gospel' that said Superman and Batman were "29". They looked like they were about 35, minimum, during the '70s and 'pre-CRISIS '80s'.
Edited by Brian O'Neill on 19 February 2018 at 7:29pm
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Adam Schulman
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Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 19 February 2018 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | 12
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If you want Batman to be fifty.
***
Assuming that math works in the DCU the way it does in the real world, Bruce must be 40-something. He's also been in the Lazarus pit at least once. So it doesn't matter as much as it might as long as nobody talks about it.
I don't know how old Dick is supposed to be. 20-something, but I don't know what the "something" is.
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