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Dave Phelps
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18 February 2018 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 1
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James Woodcock wrote:
| By aging characters you instantly take them away from who they were/are |
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Unless that's part of they are. Conan isn't just a guy in a loin cloth who slays dragons and beds comely wenches. He's a thief who became a mercenary who became a pirate who became a King. By Amazing Spider-Man #8, it was clear that where he started in Amazing Fantasy #15 wasn't where he was staying.
That evolution was in Marvel's DNA from the beginning, and clearly seen as so vital to their success that DC eventually started copying that approach. It's easy to say certain things "should never have happened." The hard part is knowing if the characters would have had nearly as much staying power if Marvel had taken the more "static" approach that Silver Age DC did.
Mike Norris wrote:
| It was Roy who decided the rest of the JSA needed to be swept into limbo. |
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Roy says it was TPTB at DC. Part of the intended "simplification" of the DCU was to have one Flash, one Hawkman, seven Green Lanterns (err... how about we say "no Green Lanterns who weren't part of the Corps"), etc. So the JSA was written out of the present day and were generally relegated to the background in the new All-Stars book.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 18 February 2018 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 2
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Ms. Jansen, there was a comic book about super heroes aging and the "Old Super Heroes Home." It was called "Kingdom Come." For example, Batman was so damaged that he needed a powered exoskeleton to move.Eric Jansen - Regarding Black Lightning, the original series had him gaining super powers within the first ten issues. That's what Tony Isabella intended. I believe he wanted a super hero who wasn't at Superman or Green Lantern level, but a little more potent than Batman or Green Arrow.
Marvel's World War II heroes aren't really problematic. Captain America, Namor, and the original Human Torch all have reasonable excuses for not having aged. The Justice Society is a little more problematic, but only a little. Their only connection to World War II is the Justice Battalion designation during WWII. Know what? LET'S NOT MENTION IT. Presto... an old continuity element is no longer discussed* and now, the JSA is NOT associated to WWII, and could have started 30 years ago... or whatever timing you like (or, more realistically, what DC likes.) As Mr. Byrne has so often noted... just ignore it. In this case, disassociating the JSA does nothing to harm the idea or heroes.
*And with the reboots at DC, the Justice Battalion can simply be wiped away, same as Diana's Mer-Boy and Bird-Boy boyfriends, and Jerro the merman.
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Brian O'Neill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 November 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 1964
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| Posted: 18 February 2018 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 3
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Wallace Sellers: Aaaand I still haven’t read a good reason.
As a former high school administrator and teacher, I can say with
confidence that there is enough room for relationship drama in that
setting to make moving Peter to college unnecessary. ************************************************************ ****** I look at the rest of the characters. If you keep Peter in high school, and maintain the status quo for everyone else in his supporting cast, then he never meets Mary Jane, either, and Flash Thompson experiences no character growth, and remains a dim-witted mashup of Riverdale High's Reggie and Moose. And the 'high school hijinks' of that school were and are more appealing than anything at Midtown. ESU was 'where it's at' for Peter Parker.
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Wallace Sellars
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Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17670
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| Posted: 18 February 2018 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | 4
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I look at the rest of the characters. If you keep Peter in high school, and
maintain the status quo for everyone else in his supporting cast, then he never
meets Mary Jane, either, and Flash Thompson experiences no character
growth, and remains a dim-witted mashup of Riverdale High's Reggie and
Moose.
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Peter remaining in high school does not preclude either of those things
from happening.
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Brian O'Neill
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Joined: 13 November 2013
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18 February 2018 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | 5
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Based on what? Nobody remained in high school, and the characters changed accordingly. How do they 'outgrow' high school attitudes if they never leave?
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4523
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| Posted: 18 February 2018 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 6
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"Ms. Jansen, there was a comic book about super heroes aging and the "Old Super Heroes Home." It was called "Kingdom Come." For example, Batman was so damaged that he needed a powered exoskeleton to move."
I guess there is "no new thing under the sun". It's partly enjoyable and partly overwhelming to try to catch up on events after not following things for so long. Thanks to the internet wikis, blogs and this forum I am getting caught up fast.
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I don't think Peter Parker has to stay in high school so much as he has to be a troubled, guilt-ridden, brainy outsider with a heart of gold who still needs to make a living and pay for Aunt May's health care. The John Romita Sr. version made him a bit too much into the kind of well fed guy he used to have as a natural nemesis. Mary Jane and Gwen Stacy should have found him creepy too, that was part of the original spider curse... only equally nebbishy Betty liked him, and of course Peter found that awkward or couldn't even see it (because who would be interested in Peter Parker).
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 18 February 2018 at 1:26pm
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Mike Norris
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 18 February 2018 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | 7
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Their only connection to World War II is the Justice Battalion designation during WWII. Know what? LET'S NOT MENTION IT. Presto... an old continuity element is no longer discussed* and now, the JSA is NOT associated to WWII, and could have started 30 years ago... or whatever timing you like (or, more realistically, what DC likes.) As Mr. Byrne has so often noted... just ignore it. In this case, disassociating the JSA does nothing to harm the idea or heroes.
*And with the reboots at DC, the Justice Battalion can simply be wiped away, same as Diana's Mer-Boy and Bird-Boy boyfriends, and Jerro the merman. ************************************************************ ********************** Simple and elegant, which means the fanboys would hate it.
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Michael Roberts
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Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 18 February 2018 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 8
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The John Romita Sr. version made him a bit too much into the kind of well fed guy he used to have as a natural nemesis. Mary Jane and Gwen Stacy should have found him creepy too, that was part of the original spider curse... only equally nebbishy Betty liked him, and of course Peter found that awkward or couldn't even see it (because who would be interested in Peter Parker).
——
Even while Ditko was on the book, Peter had an older woman and one of the popular girls in school fighting her over him. Meanwhile, even though we never see MJ’s face, we’re told that she has movie star looks, and she’s interested in being set up with Peter as well. We could all wish that we were that creepy that all these attractive women were pursuing us.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4523
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| Posted: 18 February 2018 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 9
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I'm still imprinted by the '60s cartoon voices. I can only hear Jameson, Betty and Peter with those voices. They seemed to be rerun somewhere all the time alongside Rocket Robin Hood and that Hercules with Newton the centaur and evil Daedalus in it.
Jerro The Merboy, he and Supergirl couldn't be together long because they came from such different worlds! So poignant. :^( Well, okay, a copy of Lori Lemaris in Superman. But we didn't have access to every comic ever published or at least info about what was in them. Poor Comet the Super-Horse too! Only when a comet came by... 'choke' 'sob'. "She must never even suspect." It was something to read. Nobody imagined college courses and scholarly doctoral thesis yet. Nobody questioned the eggs the ducks ate at Grandma Duck's farm. Now that could get real hairy!!! Don't go there, turn back, stop before it's too late! :^D
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Brian O'Neill
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| Posted: 18 February 2018 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 10
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Wasn't the 'Peter stays in high school or goes to college' matter the main reason Ditko didn't see eye to eye with Stan, and left AMAZING?
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Brian O'Neill
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| Posted: 18 February 2018 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 11
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To this day, even after seeing Cartoon Network versions of DC characters, and Fox network Marvel cartoons, I still hear the voices from the 70s 'Superfriends', 'Spider-Woman', and'Plastic Man' cartoons. With Spider-Man, the 'Amazing Friens' voice ultimately took over from the '60s version.(Kevin Conroy eventually surpassed Olan Soule, but Casey Kasem was evenm more 'Robin' to me than he was 'Shaggy').
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Eric Jansen
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Joined: 27 October 2013
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| Posted: 18 February 2018 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | 12
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OK, going to the source, I found an interview with Stan Lee in 2011's ALTER EGO #104 where he was asked why "Spider-Man" and not "Spider-Boy." Stan said:
"Spider-Boy would have sounded too immature...Also I had the idea that if he succeeded in subsequent issues and in subsequent years, we would age him. And at some point he would be a man. And when he became an adult male, it would be silly to keep calling him Spider-Boy. So I guess I was just farsighted enough to think ahead and be wise enough to call him Spider-Man."
So, if you can believe Stan Lee's memory (and I know some people don't), aging was built into the character and, by extension, all the Marvel characters. I trust him in this because it's really the only thing that makes sense in calling a 15 year-old boy "Man."
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