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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 12 February 2018 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | 1
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Eric Sofer wrote:
Why did you like that Hulk and read his stories? Or didn't you like 'em? |
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Having seen some of the black and white FRANKENSTEIN movies, my sympathies lay with the Monster. Same with King Kong. Or Phantom of the Opera. Their opponents were always nasty, shallow, immoral people. I mean, who would you sympathise with? Frankenstein's Monster or a bunch of nutty people with pitchforks?
I like that the Hulk provided similar stories, but with a superhero perspective. It also taught me an important lesson: don't judge a book by its cover. The menacing-looking monster was often the kindest and most sensitive character in the story (I liked the issues where the Hulk was in Florida, interacting with people like that young boy. I think they may have went to Disneyworld in one story).
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 12 February 2018 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 2
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I was definitely a fan of the more simplistic, childlike Hulk. His rage against a world that was far more cruel and hostile than it needed to be was one that I could relate to. I genuinely enjoyed many of his adventures with the Defenders. I followed the title on and off well into the Peter David years when his tenure as the Professor finally shook me of my long-standing affection for the character. Strictly a back-issue only purchase for me these days.
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 12 February 2018 at 9:32pm | IP Logged | 3
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The Hulk is one of my moistest favoritest characters ever! I think the formula that Lee and company eventually hit on (and which the TV show later made great use of) is probably the...er... strongest one there is.
The Hulk is Banner's anger and dark side made flesh, magnified by 1000%. His dark opposite, which is still connected to him, like the other side of the coin. You have the calm, rational, and intellectual Banner, and the raging, irrational, and unintelligent Hulk. Two sides of the same coin. I also love the symmetry of the transformation mechanism: If Banner's emotions get too heated, he becomes the Hulk. If the Hulk calms down and finds the peace he seeks, he turns back into Banner and ceases to exist.
That being said, I prefer the constantly-angry, kinda-scary Hulk to the flat-out dumb and dopey version. Donald Duck instead of Goofy is a good summation.
I enjoy the early iterations of the character, too, but a Hulk who's too smart, too sinister, or too much under Banner's control is less interesting and less primal than the child-like, rage-monster version. That version seems to really hit a nerve with people, y'know? The classic Hulk is a wonderful fusion of Jekyll/Hyde with sympathetic monsters like Frankenstein's.
I jumped ship after Peter David introduced the "merged" Hulk, because that version removed the essential conflict at the core of the character: Banner struggling with his inner demon. And, unfortunately, the Hulk has been trapped in a consistent state of inconsistency, ever since David's run. If you asked me, I wouldn't even be able to guess what the Hulk's current personality, intelligence level, or skin color are. Or if he's even Banner, anymore. There are like, 17 Hulks, now, right?
Anyway, the nonsense from the movie people about the Hulk not being able to carry a movie series of his own is just that: nonsense. The TV lasted five seasons by putting the character into interesting situations, and by providing its lead duo with pathos and psychological/emotional complexity. The Hulk is a character you can do a huge range of stories with: superhero action, science fiction, horror, psychodrama, etc. So much to tap into, there.
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2280
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Posted: 12 February 2018 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | 4
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"The Hulk's dialogue in the '70s and early '80s (pre 'Banner-Hulk') was a bit laughable...and those Len Wein/Roger Stern 'Disney' perspectives suddenly seem very telling!"
I LOVED the Wein and Stern runs! With the great Sal Buscema drawing most of it--as well as Bill Mantlo's interesting run. I've been waiting a LONG time for reprint collections of these. (AFFORDABLE reprint collections, that is! Everything's available if you want to spend $60 for a hardcover. And no thank you to the B&W phonebooks either.)
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Brian O'Neill Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 November 2013 Location: United States Posts: 1964
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Posted: 13 February 2018 at 2:18am | IP Logged | 5
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Sure the stories were well-written(whenever the Hulk wasn't talking!), and looked great..but ' Bah! Puny Hulk 'nicknames' were dumb!' And the one time in Hulk's own title where he ate beans became a running gag in THE DEFENDERS... Brian did not like overuse of 'Hulk LIKES beans!'It really is too bad that 'Tall Man and Beard Man had puny arguments' ...oops, I mean, Shooter and JB had issues... when the latter worked on the book.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 13 February 2018 at 4:09am | IP Logged | 6
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Eric, those B&W phonebooks are awesome! ;-)
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5064
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Posted: 13 February 2018 at 5:38am | IP Logged | 7
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I'd vote for the Len Wein and Roger Stern runs as being my joint favourites on the character. With the art of Herb Trimpe and Sal Buscema to boot.
I like Mantlo's run up until the last 12-15 issues or so. It seemed he just ran out of steam towards the end. Prior to that there was some good stuff for around 45 issues.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132129
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Posted: 13 February 2018 at 6:05am | IP Logged | 8
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Sounds as if Len and Roger both had someone slip 'em a mickey.•• Sounds like you're taking their comments far too literally.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132129
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Posted: 13 February 2018 at 6:08am | IP Logged | 9
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When Jim Shooter cancelled GHOST RIDER, and I was a kid, I listened to the explanation (and bought it) that it was time to close up some stories. It made sense--we needed to see an end to Johnny Blaze's curse and wanderings. Looking back, I see that was wrong. GHOST RIDER could have gone on for ages--we just needed new writers with fresh eyes.•• When DC decided to kill Barry Allen, Dick Giordano told me it was because "there were no more stories to tell with him." Bah! I said. But for the fact that I only have about four running poses, I could have done another hundred issues with Barry. But, alas, DC was then in their mindset that characters that were fuct-up were fuct-up forever. (Unless Alan Moore wanted to do something with them.)
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Adam Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017 Posts: 1717
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Posted: 13 February 2018 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 10
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JB, just curious -- had Barry not been killed, what would you have done with Wally West?
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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7465
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Posted: 13 February 2018 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 11
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When I was a kid, I liked the Hulk stories a lot. I could sympathize with a guy who was hounded by bullies-- I had some experience with that here and there. And with being full of rage and powerless to do much with it.
It's interesting that, at Awesome Con last year, Stan Lee said that the Hulk was the character he liked that he thought might be the toughest sell. Sympathetic monsters were pretty unusual then, even with Ben Grimm blazing that trail.
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Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 8369
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Posted: 13 February 2018 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 12
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I liked the, running from the military, Hulk stories. The military was the bully that pushed banner around. When they pushed too hard the mister came out and kicked the bully's ass.
There is a pathos quality to the character as well. Both want to escape the other but can't. Neither gets to find happiness.
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