| Author |
|
Andrew Hess
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9843
|
| Posted: 11 February 2018 at 10:02pm | IP Logged | 1
|
post reply
|
|
David - I corrected the spelling of the title of the thread. Not my strong point.
And the intent of the wording was in fact to sensationalize the article with bombast.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
Andrew Hess
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9843
|
| Posted: 11 February 2018 at 10:02pm | IP Logged | 2
|
post reply
|
|
Michael - thanks for the connecting the dots! I hadn't dug further into the connections.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132303
|
| Posted: 12 February 2018 at 6:22am | IP Logged | 3
|
post reply
|
|
When works like this have been floating around as long as Shakespeare's plays, it becomes harder and harder to tell what is original, and what was added later. A literary reference may not even mean the authors himself made it.I've mentioned before that a few decades ago I saw a production of THE MIKADO "by" Gilbert and Sullivan. Quotes, there, because the production included many modern insertions. The executioner's song contained a reference to Rubic's cubes!!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12444
|
| Posted: 12 February 2018 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 4
|
post reply
|
|
Out of curiosity, I looked up on Google Books "Shakespeare" and "George North," and I found almost immediately a book in possession of the U. of Calif. called An Illustrated Catalogue of Fine And Rare Books, published in London by a firm called Myers & Co. There's no date on the book that I've seen, but there's a telephone number to call along with information to instead telegram or cable. So, this had to be published a good 100 years ago. Within this catalogue, one can see the exact George North book described, with specific references to Shakespeare, and for sale for $180. Actually, it's not even a printed version, but it's an autograph manuscript!
The NYTimes article makes it seem like these computer-drama folks today used a modern technological device to "out" George North as a Shakespeare source -- but now I can't help but wonder if application of current anti-plagiarism computer programs is what's fomenting some of this hooplah, because if I -- not remotely a Shakespearean or Elizabethan scholar -- can quickly use Google Books and make this connection...? Perhaps it had not been known before that George North was a source for some of these specific plays, like Richard III...? Clearly people knew a long time ago he'd been connected to other plays, though.
I wonder what really gives? So much of what goes on 'round Shakespeare (the franchise, not the man) is about marketing, business, careers, status, etc.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Ed Aycock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1004
|
| Posted: 12 February 2018 at 7:31am | IP Logged | 5
|
post reply
|
|
I am no great scholar but I was an English major and took an Advanced Shakespeare class as an undergrad. Mainly, we touched upon a lot of the plays that don't get taught in the main Shakespeare classes. My professor was a fantastic, robust, Shakespeare lover who had also performed and in the class was another woman who directed Shakespeare. They were both surprised when I asked if "Shakespeare" had borrowed from "Snow White" when he wrote "Cymbeline." (This was still five years or so before I ever used the internet.)
Right before I saw this thread, only last week, I looked it up and there was my answer. "Snow White" predates the play and scholars say yes, yes it's almost positive he did while writing "Cymbeline."
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132303
|
| Posted: 12 February 2018 at 8:57am | IP Logged | 6
|
post reply
|
|
Not directly related, but always fun....Flanders and Swann GREENSLEEVES Some of the historical references my fly right past my Fellow Americans, alas!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Laird Williams
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 3
|
| Posted: 22 February 2018 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | 7
|
post reply
|
|
Greetings.
Michael, where might I find more information about the relationship of Devere to North?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4530
|
| Posted: 22 February 2018 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | 8
|
post reply
|
|
I know that they've officially re-credited some Shakespeare works to being also by Christopher Marlowe.
It's the melodrama of the day, commercial entertainment, Grimm and Andersen sold books to a large audience, the Child ballads entertained generations. "Sparkling dialogue" says Rolling Stone!
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 22 February 2018 at 6:13pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Robert Cosgrove
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 1710
|
| Posted: 22 February 2018 at 8:06pm | IP Logged | 9
|
post reply
|
|
"I know that they've officially re-credited some Shakespeare works to being also by Christopher Marlowe."
I don't ask contentiously, but like what?
And who does the "official" re-crediting?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4530
|
| Posted: 22 February 2018 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | 10
|
post reply
|
|
This probably does a better job on the Christopher Marlowe co-credit "after analysis by team of 23 academics" than i can...
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/oct/23/christopher- marlowe-credited-as-one-of-shakespeares-co-writers
I remember something about Will never having left England, whereas Merchant Of Venice contained details only someone who'd been there could have written so fully about. There are theories about Marlowe having staged his own death while under threat of bodily harm during Liz I's reign and living on in exile on the continent using Will as his 'beard' of Avon. Also some stuff on Richard III being written to suit Elizabeth and the Tudors (ie. political propaganda, maybe the same was done for the wicked Prince John vs. noble Robin Of Locksley (Robin Hood). Who knows I'm sure. ;^)
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Brian O'Neill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 November 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 1964
|
| Posted: 22 February 2018 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | 11
|
post reply
|
|
In fact, in the 'Doctor Who' world, the Fourth Doctor did take credit for writing, or at least editing, the manuscripts. nice that at least one universe has an easy answer to 'The Shakespeare Question'!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12444
|
| Posted: 23 February 2018 at 7:00am | IP Logged | 12
|
post reply
|
|
Michael, where might I find more information about the relationship of Devere to North?
***
Hello, Laird. Any number of biographies of Edward DeVere discuss Lord North. I've consulted, for example: Edward de Vere (1550-1604): The Crisis and Consequences of Wardship by Daphne Pearson, and, Monstrous Adversary: The Life of Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford by Alan H. Nelson.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
