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Topic: So, We Can’t Get Any Dumber? Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 10:17am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 10:27am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Darwin strikes again.
The people most likely to heed this idiot's call against vaccination will be the ones to get sick and die because of it... but of course, the "halo effect" means that many non-believers will get sick as herd immunity is decreased.
This is how humanity will be taken down: our own stupidity.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Why not put her faith to the test? Why not handle snakes in church? Venomous ones! And drink some poison.

It's all there in Mark 16:17-18:

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

But that's the thing. She won't. Yet if she truly believed, she would do it.
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Sergio Saavedra
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 11:01am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Ugh! People like that give us believers a bad name.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

We can't get any dumber? What's the high score? 'Cause I think we're going for it in the U.S. right now...

I have no problem with Darwin taking his toll on this people. Skip the flu vaccine. Trust in God to keep you safe (never mind that God MADE that flu in the first place, and inflicted it on YOU, holy and best beloved of the Lord!) Trust God to make your illness dissipate quickly. And trust God to  make your death painless.

No, what bothers me is that this dimwits enforce their will on others who can't make their own decision... or who are too simple to understand the basic illogic. I mean...
     God made the flu.
     God also made the flu vaccine.
     Why would he want one and not the other?

I don't object to what others believe, as long as the don't hurt others, and I'm neither smart enough nor experienced enough to say that they're wrong and I'm right - I only conclude from what I see and hear. But sometimes, it seems that beliefs are not being applied consistently, and maybe that's the issue at hand.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Beliefs aren't consistent.

I mean, why do Jehovah's Witnesses focus on abstaining from blood by refusing blood transfusions? Blood transfusions weren't around then, anyway, so the passages could clearly not have been referring to non-existent blood transfusions.

Yet for some reason, JWs focus on that, which has led to some dying because of not wanting a blood transfusions; yet they do not seem to apply countless other OT/NT rules.

And I sure would like to get Pence's opinion on 45's outbursts. Does this 'Christian' approve?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 11:40am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

God didn't make the Flu. The Devil did. God just doesn't do anything about it.

(One of my best friends from high school believes this, along with Old Nick making all the dinosaur fossils. I am constantly amazed by how stupid smart people can be.)

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Oh my, the dinosaur fossil thing. I found that embarrassing.

I did work with an evangelical Christian once (and the office manager eventually told him to stop proselytising). He was forever bringing literature and other stuff in. He was a follower of Kenneth Cope and would mail stuff to him (imagine the airmail costs!).

He once mentioned how Satan had probably manipulated things so that trees and rocks (and other things) looked older than they were.

Unbelievable.
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Byron Graham
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

When we get to the point where Satan maniplates reality for his nefarious needs, I wonder why does God or Satan even need us? Couldn't they just create loyal followers? Trying to control humans is like herding cats.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

 I am constantly amazed by how stupid smart people can be.

*****

So am I, JB. Boggles my mind almost on a weekly basis these days.

++++++
I wonder why does God or Satan even need us? Couldn't they just create loyal followers?

******
Well, isn't that organized religion?? Cults??

-C!


Edited by Charles Valderrama on 08 February 2018 at 12:11pm
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I have a story in the works that posits God is the equals sign of a vast equation that must balance in multiple dimensions. Lots of power but very few ways to exert it... and the story even suggests that God may not be sentient in the way we understand sentience.
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

That 'southern evangelical' crap needs to go.
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I've been arguing against the Copelands ever since I first became a Christian 35 years ago and read the Bible.  Please don't judge all of us Christians by their crazy beliefs!  Judge us by our own crazy beliefs--of a loving Creator who answers heartfelt prayers.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Judge us by our own crazy beliefs--of a loving Creator who answers heartfelt prayers.

•••

Sort this out for me: all of the universe is God's plan, and God's plan is, by definition, perfect. So prayer is asking God to change his perfect plan, to do something less than perfect.

Am I missing something?

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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

I think the problem a lot of people have (non-believers AND some believers) is that they fail to realize that this reality is sort of the "Middle Ground" (as a comic book fan, I find myself wanting to call it "Midgard" but that would just confuse things).  This is not Heaven, where everything is perfect, nor is it Hell where everything is awful.  Different scriptures say that in Heaven "Every tear will be wiped away" while in Hell "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."  Here, we cry sometimes, and we laugh other times.

God is perfect and His plan is perfect, but we are not perfect and this world has become imperfect.  You can disagree with it, and then I can explain how it all comes down to God not wanting "worship robots" but rather children who come to Him of their own volition and that's only possible in a place where bad things can happen to good people and good things can happen to bad people.

This is a nursery and we're all babies trying to make sense of things out in the hall.
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 10:48pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

JB, did you ever plot out a story where you had a solid outline but then a character or two started going their own way?  In a sense "asking" you to change your plan.  Prayer is like that.  And sometimes the Author says "OK!" and other times, the answer is "No."
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 10:54pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply


 QUOTE:
This is a nursery and we're all babies trying to make sense of things out in the hall.

If this is true, then how can you claim this:


 QUOTE:
God is perfect and His plan is perfect, but we are not perfect and this world has become imperfect.  You can disagree with it, and then I can explain how it all comes down to God not wanting "worship robots" but rather children who come to Him of their own volition and that's only possible in a place where bad things can happen to good people and good things can happen to bad people.

You can’t claim to know God’s intentions and motives while claiming that man is imperfect and struggling to understand God. 

As an aside, a God that serves out any form of eternal punishment is evil
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John Byrne
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 11:25pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

God is perfect and His plan is perfect, but we are not perfect and this world has become imperfect.

••

Typically, you are trying to have your Kate, and Edith too.

God is perfect, his Plan is perfect -- and each and every one of us is part of that Plan. Whatever we do, whatever we endure, all happening because God wants it to happen.

The old trifecta: Bad things happen because God makes them happen, or because he lets them happen, or because he is powerless to prevent them from happening. No other choices available. Same for Good things.

Personally, I prefer the old Hebrew teachings that God created this world, send down the Manuel and the Prophets to interpret it, and then moved on. He's over in another county now, pulling another Creation. We are all alone. The Age of Miracles has passed.

++++++++++++

JB, did you ever plot out a story where you had a solid outline but then a character or two started going their own way? In a sense "asking" you to change your plan. Prayer is like that. And sometimes the Author says "OK!" and other times, the answer is "No."

••

And when the Author says "No," his creations are left to suffer? Even tho they are his creations, and their suffering is his doing.

God is Love -- and yet it was his Son who painted for us the first verbal portrait of the eternal torment that awaited us if we messed up in our piddling few years on Earth. Nice.

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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 09 February 2018 at 12:00am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

"You can’t claim to know God’s intentions and motives while claiming that man is imperfect and struggling to understand God."

Sure I can.  I understand some things and I don't understand other things, or I understand incompletely, due to my own limitations.

"And when the Author says "No," his creations are left to suffer? Even tho they are his creations, and their suffering is his doing."

I've asked for plenty of things that, in hindsight, were not the best for me.  (A couple of women that I was madly in love with at the time spring to mind, and now looking back I go "Whew!")  I guess I should have spelled out that sometimes the answer is "No, that wouldn't be good for you."  Other times, the answer could also be "Wait."  I've prayed for some things that happened in half an hour, other things took two weeks, and still other things were granted after ten years.  I've learned patience.

As for the other points (in short, "Bad things happen, therefore God must be bad"), like I said, this is the middle ground.  This is the place where we scrape knees and risk death, where we are tempted or rise above temptation, where we fear or are brave--time enough for perfection and immortality later.  If we were in Heaven and bad things still happened to us, then your points would be valid.

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 09 February 2018 at 12:08am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Sure I can.  I understand some things and I don't understand other things, or I understand incompletely, due to my own limitations.

——

If you don’t understand completely, how do you know which is which?
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 09 February 2018 at 1:10am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

It's not a matter of one or the other, it's a matter of degrees.  The things I'm sharing are the culmination of 30, 40 years of study, prayer, reading the Bible, and personal experience.  Hopefully, I will have another 30 or 40 years to learn more.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 09 February 2018 at 1:34am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

It's not a matter of one or the other, it's a matter of degrees.  The things I'm sharing are the culmination of 30, 40 years of study, prayer, reading the Bible, and personal experience.  Hopefully, I will have another 30 or 40 years to learn more.

——

Which doesn’t really answer things. If your understanding is incomplete, whether be it because of time or human limitations, how can you claim to understand God’s intentions or motives? All you have is a best guess based on your limitations. 
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 09 February 2018 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

It sounds like your argument is that I have to know everything to know some things, and I have to disagree with that.
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Dale Lerette
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Posted: 09 February 2018 at 9:21am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

As someone who follows matters of faith closely I find this discussion illuminating.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 February 2018 at 9:36am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I've asked for plenty of things that, in hindsight, were not the best for me. (A couple of women that I was madly in love with at the time spring to mind, and now looking back I go "Whew!") I guess I should have spelled out that sometimes the answer is "No, that wouldn't be good for you." Other times, the answer could also be "Wait." I've prayed for some things that happened in half an hour, other things took two weeks, and still other things were granted after ten years. I've learned patience.

•••

If you pray FOR anything, you are not following the teachings of Jesus. He said that God already knows what you want (how could he not?) and that your job is to suck up to God ("Oo, you are so big...") until he decides to take care of your needs.

Cuz, you know, he couldn't just DO that, egotistical prick that he is.

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