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Brian O'Neill
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| Posted: 07 December 2017 at 9:23pm | IP Logged | 1
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Greg Kirkman:
And, yes, Matt, I was aware of the FANTASY MASTERPIECES stuff. Personally, I prefer historical accuracy, although I don't have quite as much of a problem with reprints which fix typos and coloring errors and the like, like the MARVEL TALES Spider-Man stuff.
*****
Didn't the early-80s MARVEL TALES reprints change some the '60s topical references? I thought there was one where Flash Thompson mentioned some 60s starlet like 'Tuesday Weld', but they changed it to some '1982 topical' celeb, whose name escapes me
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Karl Wiebe
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| Posted: 07 December 2017 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | 2
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I hate censorship - it's not like the comic book is suddenly appearing in front of someone without their consent. The reader has the choice to read it (or not). I vote for historical accuracy.
This thread reminds me of the Dr. Suess cartoon Cross-Section of The World’s Most Prosperous Department Store that went up for auction a couple of years ago. Beloved illustrator and definitely a sign of the times back then.
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Greg Kirkman
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| Posted: 07 December 2017 at 9:36pm | IP Logged | 3
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Didn't the early-80s MARVEL TALES reprints change some the '60s topical references? I thought there was one where Flash Thompson mentioned some 60s starlet like 'Tuesday Weld', but they changed it to some '1982 topical' celeb, whose name escapes me.
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Yep. I believe Roger Stern was the reprint editor, and he tweaked things like that to make the stories a bit more friendly to kids of the 80s.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 07 December 2017 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | 4
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There was some fan grumbling about that, at the time. In response I pointed out that a quick check of the captions will show that 99% of comicbook stories happen NOW.
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James Woodcock
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| Posted: 08 December 2017 at 12:05am | IP Logged | 5
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It is a dangerous thing, to rewrite one’s history and remove the bad bits. Because by pretending something didn’t happen, we rob the current generation of the opportunity to learn from our forefathers mistakes.
And the only outcome from that is that we would be doomed to repeat those mistakes.
Edited by James Woodcock on 08 December 2017 at 12:05am
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Brian O'Neill
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| Posted: 08 December 2017 at 12:13am | IP Logged | 6
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I even encountered the 'updated references' bit in one of the first Archie comics I read(a digest published in 1984). In a story from the late '50s or early '60s, Reggie said that the school's cheerleaders looked like 'Charley's[sic] Angels, all rolled into one.' I saw this story again in another digest in the last year or so, and the reference had been updated to some music group. I still don't know what the original dialogue was.
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Bill Collins
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| Posted: 08 December 2017 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 7
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Regarding what James said ` Because by pretending
something didn’t happen, we rob the current generation
of the opportunity to learn from our forefathers
mistakes`
I have read a few media stories recently of people
wanting statues removed and buildings renamed because of
certain historical figures` links to the slave
trade,despite their benevolence in other areas.Surely
pretending these people didn`t exist is counter-
productive and a bit of historical context and common
sense should prevail?
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Eric Sofer
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| Posted: 08 December 2017 at 9:22am | IP Logged | 8
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History happened. We can have all the updated comics we want... but the original books were what was printed. I believe in reprinting what was originally printed. Disclaimers and explanations are fine, and perhaps even necessary... but pretending it didn't happen is insulting and disingenuous.
I feel the same about this as I do of cutting up old cartoons that had offensive content. Same matter... put an advisory/warning on them, but don't hack them up. And if a broadcaster finds them THAT offensive... just don't show them.
In general, rewriting of history smacks too much of censorship to me. We all know that that's how dictators operate, and while modifying a comic book may be a far cry from "changing" history, it feels too close to be comfortable to me. Again, history happened; denying or modifying it seems, at the least, unfair.
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Michael Roberts
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Joined: 20 April 2004
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| Posted: 08 December 2017 at 9:36am | IP Logged | 9
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QUOTE:
Regarding what James said ` Because by pretending
something didn’t happen, we rob the current generation
of the opportunity to learn from our forefathers
mistakes`
I have read a few media stories recently of people
wanting statues removed and buildings renamed because of
certain historical figures` links to the slave
trade,despite their benevolence in other areas.Surely
pretending these people didn`t exist is counter-
productive and a bit of historical context and common
sense should prevail? |
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I was about to say, the "common sense" that James offered up is the same logic that racists use to defend retaining statues honoring the Confederacy.
Removing people from places of honor in school names and statues in public parks is not "pretending they don't exist". Put those people in their proper historical contexts in books and museums. You don't need a statue of Hitler in a public square to maintain his proper place in history.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 08 December 2017 at 10:04am | IP Logged | 10
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QUOTE:
That's the thing, though--correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the uncensored version is currently in print.
I can see having the censored version in mainstream bookstores (where kids who just saw the WONDER WOMAN film could find them), and the uncensored version in comic shops, but it seems that the censored version is the only version currently out there. |
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As you indicated, the use of the edited pages in the Omnibus version was accidental. I think that would have been the ideal division. The trade paperback for the mass market removing some of the problematic material and the expensive Omnibus containing the uncensored pages.
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Joe S. Walker
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| Posted: 08 December 2017 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 11
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I'd prefer an uncensored reprint if there's one available, but what really irritates me is the stated justification for doing it, with its implication that We Know Better Now, Don't We? Why do DC mention the change at all? It's their intellectual property, they can redraw Wonder Woman with a beard and an erect penis if they want. Why draw attention to a change that most modern readers probably wouldn't notice, except to score virtue points?
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Michael Roberts
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| Posted: 08 December 2017 at 10:09am | IP Logged | 12
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I'd prefer an uncensored reprint if there's one available, but what really irritates me is the stated justification for doing it, with its implication that We Know Better Now, Don't We? Why do DC mention the change at all? It's their intellectual property, they can redraw Wonder Woman with a beard and an erect penis if they want. Why draw attention to a change that most modern readers probably wouldn't notice, except to score virtue points?
----
Let me introduce you to the internet. Someone would have noticed, and then there would be rabid online discussion about how DC is being all 1984 and rewriting history silently. Might as well be upfront about it.
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