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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 28 November 2017 at 10:03am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

The DCTVU crossover event started last night - "Crisis on Earth-X." So we can share some thoughts...

ITEM: I so geeked out that I'm probably over-optimistic about what I saw, so some of my initial observations are likely too upbeat.. So... what? I liked what I saw!

ITEM: Last year's event was pretty much a three episode crossover - that episode of Supergirl really had nothing to do with it save for the last two minutes. Each show was done in its own style while accounting for the crossover, and I quite enjoyed it.

This year, it is non-episode related; a lot of the Supergirl episode was about Barry and Iris' wedding, and it is playing out like four episodes of a movie that, from the beginning, recognizes that it is a crossover. I really like that as well, and both styles appeal to me.

ITEM: I liked that there are story elements from each show that are presented in this (e.g., Professor Stein and Jax dealing with Firestorm vs. permanently separating, Oliver and Felicity's ongoing romantic status, Barry and Iris' wedding [obviously!], Alex dealing with losing Maggie - AGAIN, and so on.) And it looks as if aspects from this will carry out into each series. That's how it should be; this isn't a movie. It's four episodes of every show, and should carry elements through.

ITEM: Who was the mystery server at Barry's wedding? Gotta be a Legionnaire for my money. That's the context that makes sense to me. It was suggested elsewhere that it could be Jenni Ognats, XS. I don't have a problem with that. Of course, the next step is Brainiac 5 coming back to National City to romance Supergirl... on an alternate Earth? Eh. So it goes.

ITEM: Overgirl appears to be from Krypton in Earth-X's universe. There's an immediate break the continuity between universes, which I'm fine with. I wonder if Earth-1's Supergirl (and Superman?) are still on Krypton, or if they're heading to Earth sometime soon.

ITEM: Eobard Thawne. Wearing Wells face again. GEEK MOMENT. 'Nuff said.

ITEM: Where did Green Arrow get a kryptonite arrow? As far as I know, there is NO kryptonite on Earth-1. I know he could have got some with Cisco's help... just curious how he got it.

ITEM: Alex and Sara at the rehearsal dinner. The very obvious lesbian scene, blatantly presented - good. Welcome to the 21st century. And while I hadn't made the mental connection, it was kinda nice to see Alex find someone - even if it was for one night. However... does this girl WALLOW in guilt and anguish? She's not even the main character... couldn't she have something nice once in a while?

ITEM: Melissa Benoist has a lovely voice. I was hoping to have Joe and Professor Stein singing too... that Flash episode was glorious.

ITEM: FAR too little of Team Arrow. It was in the Arrow episode, and I wish that, if they were going to be used, that they had had a little more screen time.

ITEM: Deus-ex-machina time... how handy that Cisco got konked and is out of the picture. Saves on inter-universal rescues and all that. Maybe.

ITEM: Can't help but wish the other Legends had appeared. But maybe...

PREDICTION ONE: I think that the escape will be effected by Kara or Oliver pretending to be their Earth-X counterpart.

PREDICTION TWO: Okay, we know the rest of the Legends are going to appear from the commercials. Could they be mounting a rescue? That would be a little disappointing.

ANTI-PREDICTION ONE: I don't, don't, DON'T want this to be resolved by a human, interpersonal, deep conversation between the Earth-X champions and the Earth-1/-38 characters (e.g., Alex and Overgirl, Felcity and Black Arrow, etc.) That's a little TOO CW for me.

ANTI-PREDICTION TWO: Just because there's a swath of heroes still to come to the rescue, I'm not sure I'm looking for that - despite my little geek heart pulsing hard at the idea. If Cisco wakes up, there COULD be a rescue squad of the following: Atom, Steel, Vixen, Constantine, Saturn, Girl, Elongated Man, Elongated Man, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, J'onn J'onzz, and Superman. It'd be a little too complicated.

OBSERVATION: Once again - and this isn't a huge problem for me - Greg Berlanti wants Oliver Queen to be Bruce Wayne so hard, I'm surprised there isn't an occasional runner at the bottom of the screen. So many times, I don't see Green Arrow - I see Batman with a bow and arrow. Not a problem, but it seems kinda obvious.

I can't wait for the conclusion tonight. What are YOU thinking about it?
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Doug Centers
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Posted: 28 November 2017 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I'm glad CW had the balls to show Nazi's instead of some quasi-version of them., but Hitler living until 105 probably wouldn't have happened considering his state of health in '45.

I'm kind of in the camp of less is more. So I guess I'll be ok if maybe 1 or 2 characters come in to help out but I like the group now and want them to get the satisfaction of the win.

BTW, Canary kicks ass.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 28 November 2017 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I'd expect the supporting characters of FLASH and LEGENDS OF TOMORROW to show up in their respective episodes. Also, I think at least one (hopefully more) Freedom Fighters will show up.

Tommy cameo. Too short.

The priest at Barry and Iris' wedding was William Katt. Overgirl vaporized The Greatest American Hero.

Alex pulling the coyote move after waking up next to Sara was hilarious. I want more of this Alex, not crying Alex.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 28 November 2017 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Same mistakes... less time...more money.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 28 November 2017 at 1:44pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Or... different universe, JB?? Given DC's love for alternate earths, isn't it fair to say these shows can exist on its own merits and take liberties? (Perhaps we call it Earth-CW?)

-C!
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David Miller
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Posted: 28 November 2017 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

These shows have a finite lifespan anyway. Good on them for having fun with fun concepts while they have the opportunity.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 28 November 2017 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Or... different universe, JB?? Given DC's love for alternate earths, isn't it fair to say these shows can exist on its own merits and take liberties? (Perhaps we call it Earth-CW?)

•••

How is that an "or"? DC ran aground on the shoals of Alternate Universes", and it seems no one learned from that experience.

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Michael Hogan
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Posted: 28 November 2017 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

A few questions (since I don't watch all four shows):
-- who is the guy wearing what looks like a gray hockey mask?
-- who is the woman who's hanging around with Vixen?
-- did I see a brunette Black Canary?

Thanks.

Edited by Michael Hogan on 28 November 2017 at 8:49pm
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 28 November 2017 at 10:37pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Gray hockey mask = Wild Dog. He got a new costume this season, and even the character's creator hates it. (It really does suck.)

The woman hanging around with Vixen is more or less Isis. She's from the future, and just joined the Legends recently.

Yes, you saw a brunette Black Canary. Long story short, she's the third different Black Canary. She's a cop. The first two used devices on their necks to do the Canary Cry, but with her it's an actual super power.





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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 29 November 2017 at 3:15am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

That was more fun than I was expecting.  The usual stuff that makes me cringe from the CW shows was still there, but the unabashed superhero ‘stuff’ going on made up for most of it.

Atrocious acting during the scene between Martin and Jax.  And Agent Coulson wants his Avengers moment back, btw.  In fact there were quite a few beats from The Avengers and CA:CW on display.  

All in all enough fun that I have decided to record and try to keep up with all 3 of the CW offerings this season.  
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 29 November 2017 at 3:43am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Getting this out of the way first: BAD FELICITY! I think it's rude enough to propose to someone at another couple's rehearsal dinner/wedding reception, but to interrupt a wedding so that you can get married too? Ugh.

Really enjoyed the rest of it.

Loved the Superman II callback: "General, would you care to step outside?"

Citizen Cold had the proper Inuit Snow Goggles.

Red Tornado looked a lot better than his previous appearance on SUPERGIRL.

Killer Frost was doing the ice sled!

I should have seen Stein's death coming given all his talk about retiring to be with his family, but it still caught me off-guard and was affecting. I wouldn't be shocked if Jax ends up still being able to become Firestorm and Stein continuing to exist as a voice in his head.

The final battle managed to be a lot better than the one in JUSTICE LEAGUE.

With the Supergirl character doppelgangers co-existing with the Earth-1 doppelgangers on Earth-X, I'm wondering if they are just going to give in and merge the two Earths at some point.

Finally, WHAT THE HELL, FELICITY?
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 29 November 2017 at 4:52am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Yeah, I enjoyed that too.

And, yeah, we all hate you there for a minute, Felicity!
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Marc M. Woolman
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Posted: 29 November 2017 at 6:29am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Mostly fun, a few cringeworthy moments and
bad, very bad cgi, but overall enjoyable
and reasonably well-written. Not perfect
by a long shot, but fun.

(I thought the woman at Barry and Iris'
wedding was Cisco's (Vibe's) girlfriend.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 29 November 2017 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Marc W. - that would have been Gypsy. That wasn't her, and bringing in Gypsy would have obviated the problem of getting back and forth from Earth-X. The same problem they had that caused them to keep Cisco unconscious or powerless for most of the series.

That final scene with Professor Stein and Jax - unfortunately, my allergies chose just that moment to act up. I enjoyed the hell out of that, and I will miss Victor Garber's acting chops.

"General, would you care to step outside?" - we watched this on DVR and I actually had to stop it to geek out over it enough. Rewatched it four times. Same pose, same attitude... made me nostalgic for "Superman 2", and THAT was quite a task.

The other Legends to the rescue - FANTASTIC. It was set up, it was mentioned, it was described in the episode - and I was still pleasantly surprised.

Green Arrow as Black Arrow - while I thought it was obvious, I thought it was great. One question - it was kind of obvious that the unterhauptmann (or whoever he was) was suspicious of Oliver. But A) why would Oliver trust a gun that someone else gave him? And B) why did the unterhauptmann not realize that the gun is just a tool; OLIVER IS THE WEAPON. It seemed a touch off.

The Supergirl subplot was a little confusing... Kara-X was going to die - no, she was stabilized physically but she was going to explode? And I guess I'm a little old fashioned or simplistic, but I wanted Supergirl to start recovering her powers the instant she was out from under the red sun rays. Maybe not fully, but not so weak that she had to be helped to just walk.

Also, I really figured that the Ray would show up and recharge her in three seconds. Maybe it happened off screen... but I would have liked to see it.

I had no problem with Snart and Ray being in love. Kinda nice touch, really. And goodness me, that Wentworth Miller can act.

I missed seeing Vixen invoke her powers. Yes, she used them, but I rather like the aura of the creature she assumes surrounding her briefly.

Heat Wave and Citizen Cold - another geek moment.

" thought it would take a man of steel to catch the Girl of Steel" - NIIICE!!!

So... have we exchanged Victor Garber for Wentworth Miller in the Arrowverse? Citizen Cold didn't go with the Legends... so maybe he's going to be around on "Flash"? May be very interesting.

WHAT THE HELL, FELICITY? 

All in all, I enjoyed it tremendously - great success! Good stories going in, some resolutions, and good storylines coming out. I hope that this doesn't preclude any other crossovers of slightly less magnitude... I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing the Green Arrow - J'onn J'onzz team experiment given at least one more appearance. And sending the Legends to Krypton of Earth-1 could be tremendous fun!
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 29 November 2017 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Did I imagine seeing The Flash and the Ray racing after Red Tornado...and a train last night?


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Eric Kleefeld
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Posted: 29 November 2017 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I loved it. It looked and felt like a great '80s DC comic. You could show it to all ages, and people from any walk of life could get something out of it.

As far as I'm concerned, this was the true Justice League movie of the year.
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Eric Kleefeld
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Posted: 30 November 2017 at 12:02am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

One thing that was missing: They should've had some prominent text on screen at the very end, as it went to the credits, in memory of Len Wein.

He wrote the original Earth-X story, in a Justice League issue back in 1973. A remembrance of him in a massive TV crossover movie based on his story, airing just months after his death, would've been proper. (Perhaps they could remedy this in any future streaming video and Blu-ray versions.)

He'd also first submitted a draft with the name for the parallel universe, and the story title, "Crisis on Earth-[swastika symbol]." Julius Schwartz vetoed ever putting a swastika into the title of a story, but then substituted the idea to remove the projecting ends of the symbol to make it into the letter X.
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 30 November 2017 at 12:37am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

I admit I loved the 4-episode arc. Sure, it may miss some beats because they had to fit in so many characters, and they had to jury-rig their plot, but I thought they did a great job with what they had and even furthered some of the character sub-plots.

Loved the external references - Jax as Spider-Man...no....Clinging-Man....ha. 

"General, would you care to step outside?" - Awesome. 

I thought the Jax / Prof Stein dying scene was fantastic for a TV scene. It got me...damn allergies.

I have no clue who the mystery woman server was that adored/worshipped Barry.

Glad to see Isis finally got a costume.

I missed Diggle for the fighting. Sure he got a scene at the end, but he should have had some Spartan time. 

Atom(in name only) finally had a few good punches when he saved Kara. The writers have a habit of making him the team punching bag but dammit he should certainly be a skilled fighter by now.

Another thing I have liked on these team shows is the continuous takes for the team fights. 


Edited by Robert Shepherd on 30 November 2017 at 12:41am
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 30 November 2017 at 12:42am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

"The priest at Barry and Iris' wedding was William Katt. Overgirl vaporized The Greatest American Hero."

I knew, based on the focus they gave his character, that he was somebody I was supposed to recognize. Glad you cleared that up.
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 30 November 2017 at 12:46am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I'm SURE the "mystery girl server" had to be Barry and Iris' daughter from the future.  We know he can time travel and any offspring he might have would probably inherit his speed and, thus, the ability to "run back in time."  If I could time travel, I might go back and check out my parents' wedding too!
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 30 November 2017 at 3:12am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Overall, a very good team-up, although, I have to agree with Mark Woolman about some of the CGI usage.When even the less 'super' characters like Ollie somehow looked 'off' because of it, it kind of intruded on the story.

I only watch LEGENDS during crossovers, so I had no knowledge about Jax taking over as Firestorm on the show. That said, the resolution of the Martin Stein storyline was very powerful. My only quibble was that I didn't realize it was a 'thing' for Jax to refer to Martin only as 'Gray'. It took until the fourth episode to figure out he wasn't calling him 'Greg'!(at least it wasn't 'Ray'!) It reminded me of how the only thing I didn't like about 'Doctor Who's Seventh Doctor-Ace relationship was her incessant use of 'Professor'.(And even then, she did address him correctly once in a while).
I could do without including the entire team of 'Legends' from the (inevitable) next crossover, in favor of incorporating more of the supporting 'team players' of the other three shows. The only way they could squeeze in absolutely EVERY hero/metahuman would be four double-length episodes.
The 'Olicity' stuff was 'oh so CW(and for that matter, so was 'Nazi facial hair')'...and I also missed Diggle. Sure, they saved him for the good part, but talk about bending over backwards to exclude him from 99 %  of the action, just so the 1 % would have more impact! 
And the less said about the Earth-X 'Win', the better.


Edited by Brian O'Neill on 30 November 2017 at 3:20am
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Eric Kleefeld
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Posted: 30 November 2017 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Another thought: Was the opening scene with a Captain America stand-in character, staying true to the flag and fighting to his last breath on Earth-X, meant to be a rebuke of the entire Hydra Cap storyline?
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 30 November 2017 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

I thought the opening scene was Earth-X's Guardian. It sounded like James Olsen to me.

I didn't object to missing Diggle so much because he's so hurt. But he should have been at the wedding, I agree. And he, Iris, and Felicity sneaking through S.T.A.R. would have been more interesting - but he would have insisted on fighting to the extent of hurting himself worse, and I think that's going to be the purview of "Arrow."

Now, if he had been a heroic Earth-X Diggle... well, Black Arrow vs. Spartan would have been brilliant.

Mon-El. Saturn Girl. Xs. We're a Superboy and Brainiac 5 away from a Legion of Super-Heroes story, I tell you.
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Eric Kleefeld
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Posted: 30 November 2017 at 11:57am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Yes, it was Earth-X's James/Guardian, played by Mehcad Brooks. But notice this: He had an American flag pattern on his costume and the shield, the latter of which thus bore a strong resemblance to the original badge-shaped shield from Captain America Comics #1.

So in that scene, he was the Captain America of Earth-X.
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Ed Love
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Posted: 30 November 2017 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

The original Guardian complete with a shield more clearly based on a policeman's badge was also created by Simon & Kirby, so it is a particularly appropriate to have him be more of a riff of Captain America on a parallel earth.
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