Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 3 Next >>
Topic: Net Neutrality Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 10910
Posted: 27 November 2017 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I agree with Andrew's point -- many avenues for doing basic things like paying bills or filing taxes have been directed the way of the internet, to the extent that being online is essentially a necessity. Many products you buy now require access to the internet to work or to provide you with full user instructions.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Russ
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 March 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1882
Posted: 30 November 2017 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Dubious comments flooded into FCC during net neutrality debate

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-29/fake-view s-444-938-russian-emails-among-suspect-comments-to-fcc
Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 3200
Posted: 30 November 2017 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

When a government can manufacture commentary, reporting and official statements to express whatever position they require to justify their agenda you are no longer free.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3750
Posted: 09 December 2017 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

The FCC will vote on the proposal to end net neutrality on December 14. This could result in internet service providers (like Comcast) being able to throttle or block access to content it doesn’t like.

The ability to organize grassroots movements, whether locally or across the globe, is made possible by an open Internet. Since its creation, the Internet has become the world’s megaphone for free speech, protected by the principles of Net Neutrality, which require internet service providers (ISPs) to give everyone equal access to everything you use the internet for -- email, watching videos, and listening to music.

I just signed the petition, “Save Net Neutrality" (#netneutrality.)

Here’s the link:


-C!
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Eric Russ
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 March 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1882
Posted: 09 December 2017 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Thanks, Charles.  I've been signing and calling my representatives.


Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5973
Posted: 09 December 2017 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

The problem with undoing net neutrality is that it will also make some people hostages to their service providers even moreso than they already are, and with no viable alternatives if who they get their services from make changes they don't like or can't afford.

Here where I am (Knoxville, TN), there are two cable companies: Comcast and Spectrum (used to be Charter). But Spectrum is only allowed to serve certain parts of the city, and I am not in one of those areas. I'd drop Comcast in a second if I could switch to Spectrum. But my only alternatives are DirectTV and Dish Network...unless I want to sell my house and move to another part of town.

This is just another round in the war that corporations are waging on citizens.


Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Avatar
Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 32555
Posted: 10 December 2017 at 3:27am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

 John Byrne wrote:
At the risk of getting in all kinds of trouble, I'm not sure why this is an issue. We don't have such "neutrality" in other aspects of our lives. No "automobile neutrality" or "clothing neutrality" or "housing neutrality."

For me, it's about enacting brakes. In a net neutral world, I can watch Netflix and Google at the same speed at the same time without interference by the company which I purchase my internet.  In an non-neutral world, if I subscribe to Comcast and want to watch something that's offered by YouTube or DirecTV (AT&T), then that content can be slowed, curbed or otherwise made to be untenable.  Using an open system, competitors are shifting your speeds to make the competition unworkable.  That's my issue.

I see the internet as a highway where Fords, Hondas, Lexus and Subaru's can all drive as fast or slow as they want.  But taking away neutrality means that if you drive a Ford, you get a Ford lane and all other lanes are "less than".  If you subscribe to Honda, then all other formats not supported by Honda are "less than".  Etc. etc. etc.

Personally? I don't think that's either right or good for anyone.  
Back to Top profile | search
 
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Avatar
Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 32555
Posted: 10 December 2017 at 3:29am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

 Michael Murphy wrote:
It is not just about making more money from "fast lanes" it means that your ISP can choose what you have access to. There is not true competition between ISPs, where you live determines your provider and in many places there is only one choice. With the loss of net neutrality that provider now gets to control what you can do with the internet.

This.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Avatar
Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 32555
Posted: 10 December 2017 at 3:44am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Net neutrality is a real thing.  Seriously.  It's not just some amorphous thing that may or may not affect people.  IT AFFECTS EVERY ONE OF US.  Depending on how you get your internet (i.e..who you pay for access) those corporations, without neutrality, can decide how much bandwidth to allow for competitors.  They can actually place limits (speed, time, etc.) on your ability to access competitors sites. They can also push their own sites because they come with a higher bandwidth/speed than those they are throttling.  Cable companies can't act this way.  I can subscribe to Comcast (who owns NBC) and they can't make it more difficult for me to watch ABC, CBS, FOX or any other channel not affiliated with them.  The internet should be treated the same way. Broadcast is essentially the internet of a bygone generation.  

Imagine if you had to pay Time-Warner to get your television and neutrality wasn't in place.  They could push HBO, TBS and CNN to the forefront while making it more difficult (glitchy, inconsistent, stuttering) to watch content that they don't own. How would you feel to not be able to watch Showtime (Viacom) via a Time-Warner cable subscription or CBS, FOX or ABC?  Would that be "fair"?  Or is the neutrality of cable systems the exception to the rule?

The internet isn't a "luxury".  In this day and age, it's a necessity.  The less corporate interference in our ability to use it, the better.  Doing away with net neutrality is going all-in on corporations and trusting that they have our best interests at heart.  Is that honestly how anyone feels?

How anyone can feel laissez-faire about the issue is beyond me. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Casselman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 965
Posted: 10 December 2017 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

If we're going with the argument that internet is a necessity, then we've already failed. Local monopolies, municipal contracts with cable/internet companies, and once you get a few miles outside of a city, over-priced service tiers and bandwidth/download caps from whatever provider you 'might' be able to find.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6349
Posted: 10 December 2017 at 2:33pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

HERE is a good reference for previous infractions by companies that Net Neutrality protected us against. Imagine what they will try to do if they were actually free and clear to do so.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Russ
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 March 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1882
Posted: 13 December 2017 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

FYI -
Back to Top profile | search
 
Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3750
Posted: 14 December 2017 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Protecting the right of every person to have unfettered access to information from all sources is critical to a fully functioning democracy.

The FCC abandoning this role to the highest bidder who will answer to no one is the worst possible outcome, and the general public won't know what's happening until they start to see their access to sites and services restricted by fees and mysteriously slowing down or site failures.

"83 percent of Americans - including 3 out of 4 Republicans - opposed the plan."

Upset about this? Let your Congressperson know.

Call them. Email them. Let them know at future town halls.


-C!
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
David Allen Perrin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 2524
Posted: 14 December 2017 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

We have ONE DAY to fight the repeal of #NetNeutrality! There's a SUPER easy way to do this - it literally takes less than a minute.


1. Go to gofccyourself.com
2. Click on the 17-108 link (Restoring Internet Freedom)
2. Click on "+Express" (left-hand side)
3. Be sure to hit "ENTER" (or return key) on your keyboard after you put in your name, so it registers. (They make it a tad tricky there.)
4. In the comment section write something like, "I strongly support net neutrality backed by Title 2 oversight of ISPs."
5. Click to Review, then Submit, done. - Make sure you hit submit at the end!


Copy & paste to repost this rather than ‘Share’-ing, as it will be seen by more people. 

HAVE YOU DONE THIS YET?!
ECFS
FCC.GOV

Back to Top profile | search
 
Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3750
Posted: 14 December 2017 at 10:40pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Another thing -


-C!
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Eric Russ
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 March 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1882
Posted: 15 December 2017 at 1:52am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

As expected the FCC voted against net neutrality 3-2

Not exactly a done deal, with various groups like the ACLU taking action, as well as the Gov. of Washington.  I believe Gov. Cuomo in NY is planning action as well.  Congress, has to vote on this too, but, this current group has proved what a joke they are.

Depending on how badly Congress wants to keep their seats, they'll vote what we want, the majority, the people and not for corporate benefits.  If not, I'm sure they'll be out during the next election. Actually regardless of how they vote, they should be out.

Congress and this entire administration.


Back to Top profile | search
 
Ed Aycock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 841
Posted: 15 December 2017 at 7:57am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Did you all enjoy Ajit Pai's "humorous" video? Especially of him doing the Harlem Shuffle while dancing right next to Martina Markota, a renowned "Pizzagate" conspiracy theorist.
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Avatar
Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 32555
Posted: 15 December 2017 at 8:11am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

He's an awful human.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5500
Posted: 15 December 2017 at 8:17am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

I thought that wretched video did justice to Mr. Pai.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6349
Posted: 15 December 2017 at 9:29am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Here's a simple, easy to understand issue I had where Net Neutrality was being violated:

There was a time where Verizon FIOS was crippling traffic to/from Netflix, which forced streams to use a lower resolution to keep up. I knew this to be true, because I switched to using a VPN to my office network, and then the streams were in full HD. I still relied on the Internet connection coming out of my house, but to Verizon it was no longer seen as Netflix traffic since it was flowing via the office network first (which actually should have been a factor in slowing down speeds itself, but instead it was actually faster).

They stopped that practice, but unless Congress steps in, there will be nothing to stop them from trying to pull this again.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Bodin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar
Purveyor of Rare Items

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3891
Posted: 15 December 2017 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

FWIW, I'm VERY outraged at the FCC over the net neutrality reversal, but this is a good read to help lend some perspective to the situation:

Link:  https://www.wsj.com/articles/everybody-calm-down-about-net-n eutrality-1513124905

The article essentially points out how
the FCC plan would restore power to police the internet to the Federal Trade Commission, which previously protected internet users from unfair, deceptive and anticompetitive practices for the two decades before the FCC’s 2015 rule, which removed its jurisdiction.

The article also mentions that t
he Obama administration called for the FTC to be the sole federal privacy enforcement agency as part of its much-vaunted 2012 Privacy Bill of Rights, which helps ease some of my own anxiety about the whole net neutrality "repeal."

 [Edited to fix link and add small synopsis]


Edited by John Bodin on 16 December 2017 at 12:04am
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Brian O'Neill
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 November 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 1964
Posted: 15 December 2017 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

FYI, that link requires a subscription to the WSJ to read in full.How about a 'Reader's Digest' synopsis?

Back to Top profile | search
 
Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 2947
Posted: 15 December 2017 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

I see both sides of this one.  On the one hand, there are ways that the repeal of net neutrality could negatively effect me.  For example, I get internet from a cable provider, but TV through Sling.  They could, theoretically, throttle Sling and make the service worse for me to incentive me getting television service through them instead.  The fact that internet service is often a monopoly, or close to it, makes the idea of the government intervening attractive.

On the other hand, I don't like the idea of the internet being regulated by a government bureaucracy like the FCC.  We've already seen this year that Trump has threatened to politicize the FCC to try to control media content.  While he couldn't actually do it (yet) there are no guarantees.  And as we just saw with the whole net neutrality debate, the appointed bureaucrats at the FCC are not answerable to us in any way shape or form, and so we have no recourse should they decide to regulate the internet in a way that we don't like.  The internet has grown into what it has, and made all the improvements it has, without government regulatory intervention (net neutrality is only a couple years old), and so its not outside the realm of reason that it continue to improve and overcome various issues without the FCCs intervention.

So its a tricky issue.  I think what I would rather see is a bill be passed by our elected representatives to break up the cable and internet monopolies and increase competition, then let the market take care of this itself.  If Netflix is very popular, and a company decides to throttle Netflix, as long as I have another company (or more) to choose from, its not a problem, and the throttling company will either have to stop throttling or risk going out of business. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Avatar
Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 32555
Posted: 16 December 2017 at 1:28am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

But you shouldn't have the right to "throttle" at all. Take the cable method.  As I said on the last page, Comcast can't throttle channels it doesn't own (and it owns a lot).  They're not allowed to do that.  We can view them all at the same resolution as we view Comcast owned stations.  Why is the internet any different?  
Back to Top profile | search
 
Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3750
Posted: 22 February 2018 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Congress now has 60 legislative working days to reverse the FCC decision under the Congressional Review Act. Sen. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) said in December he would work with 43 mostly Democratic senators on the effort, which is considered a long shot.


“Without strong net neutrality rules, entrepreneurs, inventors, small businesses, activists and all those who rely on a free and open internet will be at the mercy of big broadband companies that can block websites, slow down traffic and charge websites fees in order to increase their profits,” Markey said in a statement following the FCC vote.

Some states have started lawsuits over this issue, so this should be tied up in courts for awhile. I just hope it's long enough so when the Dems take over next year they can roll it back.

-C!



Back to Top profile | search | www
 

<< Prev Page of 3 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login