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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 09 November 2017 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 1
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Robbie P: "...if living in the suburbs of a peaceful US state, do I need all manner of hi-tech weaponry?"
You don't if NOBODY has any high tech weaponry (considering handguns high tech weaponry.) But then, that's gun control again, and it's not time to talk about it.
One consideration is that low tech weaponry - knives, swords, even hands and feet - are not easy to use. I mean, any imbecile can pick up a switchblade - and if he tries to use it against someone else with a switchblade who's practiced with it, he'll get sliced to pieces. Same with a sword, or martial arts.
When learning such weaponry, I'm under the impression that a degree of self-control and discipline is also learned. But any defective can pick up a gun, point it, and pull the trigger; and if it's close to the right direction, they'll do damage. If it's an automatic weapon, it's hard to avoid doing fatal damage.
If everyone using a gun were required to learn how to use it properly, with the afore-mentioned self-control and discipline, we would all be a lot safer. But when they're almost as easy to obtain as a can of soda... well, we see the results every damned day.
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Philippe Negrin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 August 2007
Location: France
Posts: 2644
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| Posted: 09 November 2017 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 2
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When will the gun owners be forced to join a well regulated militia instead of being loose in the streets ???? It's simple, the words are here !
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Brian Skelley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 February 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 231
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| Posted: 09 November 2017 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | 3
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Robbie Parry wrote:
| Where do we draw the line on weaponry? |
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There are tons of lines drawn and enforced when it comes to firearms. It's far from the wild west where everyone can have whatever they want that seems to continue to be portrayed in these kinds of threads. There are tons of laws that limit what one can have as a civilian in the US. It's the one thing about gun threads that always blows my mind. People aren't as informed as they pretend to be when it comes to what they want to ban.
Eric Sofer wrote:
| When learning such weaponry, I'm under the impression that a degree of self-control and discipline is also learned. But any defective can pick up a gun, point it, and pull the trigger; and if it's close to the right direction, they'll do damage. If it's an automatic weapon, it's hard to avoid doing fatal damage. |
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This is interesting both in that it romanticizes knifes, swords and the like yet also points out what I mean by not knowing much about firearms. It's illegal to own a 'automatic' weapon without an in depth Government check, and the Government keeps tabs on where that 'automatic' weapon goes. More so, it's hard to "avoid doing fatal damage" with a gun regardless of it's fully auto or not. It's a bullet ripping through someone.. it's not like it's a thing where you have hit points like a video game and once you get hit too many times it's over.. As for the "degree of self-control and discipline", your mileage will greatly vary depending on where you go. Most places that I've seen will teach you how to cripple someone for life. Hell, the number one defense gyms are the MMA types and I've yet to see one of those that are like the old Kung Fu movies where they teach you to respect the universe while teaching you how to dislocate someone's shoulder. Also there are more stabbings done because some idiot picked up a knife than your post pretends.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.. if the laws are outdated, get them changed. Learn what they are (as most anti-gun people still think you can legally buy fully automatic weapons online and have them delivered to my home) and then get organized. That's what the pro side is doing. They know what they laws are and when any changes to them are being voted upon. They call their reps every day... seriously every single day leading up to the vote. Which do you think gets more attention? The random guy saying to his friends "they should get rid of guns" or the calls from hundreds (literally) daily from the "leave our guns alone" group? Odds are most people will go back to their lives like nothing has happened or throw up their hands declaring the NRA boogeyman is just too powerful because that's much easier than doing something as simple as continuing to call and harass their Senators.
Edited by Brian Skelley on 09 November 2017 at 10:43pm
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 10 November 2017 at 4:53am | IP Logged | 4
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Who mentioned the Wild West? Or used it as a comparison?
Historically speaking, and I have facts to back it up in a book, Victorian Britain was far more violent than the Wild West. So I certainly wouldn't use it as a comparison.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132336
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| Posted: 10 November 2017 at 5:45am | IP Logged | 5
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The "Wild West" was not a single, coherent entity. Different towns had different gun laws, many much more strict than what we have today -- and that at a time when people really DID need their guns for protection.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 10 November 2017 at 5:50am | IP Logged | 6
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The "Wild West" was not a single, coherent entity. Different towns had different gun laws, many much more strict than what we have today -- and that at a time when people really DID need their guns for protection.
***
No-one can know for sure, but I wonder, is a romantic view of the "Wild West" (I confess, I've mistakenly referred to it as a single entity) another reason why Americans are fixated on guns. Do they really believe that they can be "sheriffs" in their mind?
So ingrained, it would seem.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 10 November 2017 at 6:04am | IP Logged | 7
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Many Americans undoubtedly see themselves as heroic gunslingers. When I see pictures, tho, I most often see heavily armed versions of the Comic Shop Guy.
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11252
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| Posted: 10 November 2017 at 7:12am | IP Logged | 8
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That`s the media for you,the romanticism of the Wild
West is just one aspect.Look at the fools on the road
who,in their heads are driving in their own version of
The Fast and Furious franchise,where nobody ever suffers
internal injuries from high impact collisions,or the A-
Team where the bad guys would spray automatic weapons
and never hit anyone.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 10 November 2017 at 7:18am | IP Logged | 9
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Indeed, Bill.
If I had a gun, I'd like to think I could defend against a shooter in, say, a cinema; but the reality is, I couldn't. Not effectively. I'd try, but I might not have a clear shot. I could hit a bystander. So much could go wrong.
The pro-gun crowd seem to think "good guy with a gun" has a clear shot every time.
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11252
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| Posted: 10 November 2017 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 10
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I watched the latest episode of Criminal Minds during the week,it featured a mass shooting in a workplace,it really made it clear that by the time people react,there are already numerous fatalities and not much chance of identifying the shooter/s and taking them out in the ensuing confusion.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132336
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| Posted: 10 November 2017 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 11
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The anencephalics who claim arming the "good guys" will reduce gun violence seem to operate on the assumption that any such individual is by definition a sharp shooter. A crack shot who, for instance, could have "returned fire" on the church shooter, and hit only his target, and none of the panicked parishioners between the "good" shooter and the bad one. They also seem to assume gun ownership comes with some degree of time travel, as claims ignore the amount of time for the "good" shooter to get his gun(s) out, while the assailant was still shooting.
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Blair Herd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 April 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 326
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| Posted: 10 November 2017 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 12
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In addition when the trained law enforcement officers arrive, with usual rapid response, a single active shooter has now turned into several creating even more chaos. An extremely volatile and complicated scenario is now further complicated....
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