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John Popa
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Posted: 25 May 2018 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Any stories of sexual harassment at Comic Book Conventions?

-----

A Google search reveals countless articles on that topic.
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Michael Sommerville
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Posted: 26 May 2018 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The Morgan Freeman physical accusations seem like typical behavior for men of his era. Touching the small of the back and massaging shoulders is something I have seen many do in different settings in a non-sexual way. Unwanted touching seems like a broad description for these two examples unless he persisted when asked to stop. 

The other stuff makes him sound like a creepy old dude who hits on anything with a skirt. What society calls sexual harassment I assume he see as flirting. Where is the line drawn?  One of the main sources has taken issue with the story's misrepresentation of what she said already.

Is there more to it, time will tell. Jumping to conclusions without all the facts is dangerous.

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Steve De Young
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Posted: 16 June 2018 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

So, Chris Hardwick is garbage.


His response/counter-attack.

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Thomas Woods
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Posted: 16 June 2018 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

A discussion on these things, on Bill Cosby
specifically.



LINK
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Michael Sommerville
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I know nothing of Chris Hardwick or the lady that wrote the essay but why is the automatic response that he is garbage? Has there been previous accusations of this type of behavior by this guy before? Would a more reasonable response be that if these things are proven true with evidence or conformation by others he is garbage. That does not mean people can not lean towards believing it for various reasons. Society needs to be careful not to start ruining reputations on accusation because it can happen to anyone given the right circumstances.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I know nothing of Chris Hardwick or the lady that wrote the essay but why is the automatic response that he is garbage?
------------------------------------------
Did you read the material?

If a former girlfriend accused you of repeated sexual assaults, destroying her life, and then after the breakup using your connections to destroy her career, would you respond with, "Its all lies.  I dumped her because she cheated on me and she begged me for days to take her back"?

His response proved to me that its true.
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Marc M. Woolman
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Or an angry, bitter ex-girlfriend decided to trash
Harwick for dumping her, as his life seems to going
quite well.

If her allegations are true, he is scum, if they are
false she is. Without any evidence, conclusions should
not be jumped to on the basis of one ex-girlfreind's
claim.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 4:21pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Again, read the material.  I start out suspicious of all of these.  I was suspicious of hers when I read it.  Then I read it.  Then I read his Trump-ish response.  There is zero doubt in my mind that Hardwick is garbage.  Even if every word of her statement is a carefully crafted lie, his response shows hes a dick.  And her statement isnt a carefully crafted lie, if you actually read it.

Edited by Steve De Young on 17 June 2018 at 4:22pm
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Marc M. Woolman
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

(again, don't assume people haven't read the material)
I have read her statement, and what you don't seem to
be grasping is that's all it is: a statement.

She claims abuse, both mental and sexual and career-
sabotage, how should he have responded IF the
allegations are not true?

He's the host of 4 TV shows, several panels at
ComicCon, a stand-up comedian and a newly-wed. He
stands to lose all of that (I'm referring to his
career/jobs, not speculating on his marriage)
regardless of whether his ex-girlfriend's claims are
true or not.

Jump to conclusions all you want because you don't
like his response to possibly false allegations, I'll
wait and see if any other parties come forward before
I decide if the guy is scum or not.

Edited by Marc M. Woolman on 17 June 2018 at 4:34pm
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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Whether the guy is scum or not isn't even the point. The point is that a person is losing their job and having their reputation destroyed on the basis of an unproven allegation and without the benefit of due process or any kind of investigation.

If he's guilty, then throw the book at him. If he isn't, then he doesn't deserve what's happening. 

The bottom line is that he is being punished for something that hasn't even been proven. Innocent until proven guilty is the basis of the justice system in any civilized society and the burden of proof is in the hands of the accuser, not the accused. If any of you were accused of something, you can be sure you'd want your due process and a proper investigation to take place before you were punished for something someone claims you did.
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Marc M. Woolman
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I thought Hardwick's response was very restrained if the
allegations are false. I'd come after a person making
false claims that cost me my livelihood and ability to
work, with a massive lawsuit.
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Michael Sommerville
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 11:53pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I did read the material and the response. Obviously the response, false claims, infidelity, spurned ex, was not what you would expect. What in your mind is the proper response? 
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 18 June 2018 at 9:22am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Jump to conclusions all you want because you don't 
like his response to possibly false allegations,
------------------------------------------------------------ --
I think part of the problem is that you're assuming I'm jumping to conclusions.  You stated earlier that you don't know much about either party involved in this.  If because of that, you don't feel able to make a judgment as to who is being truthful, that's fine and respectable.

The problem is, the fact that you feel that way doesn't mean that there is no one else in the world who is better equipped to make that judgment than you.  And since you know very little about me, there should be at least a possibility in your mind that I might be one of those people.


The bottom line is that he is being punished for something that hasn't even been proven. Innocent until proven guilty is the basis of the justice system in any civilized society and the burden of proof is in the hands of the accuser, not the accused. 
--------------------------------------------
You're right.  That's exactly how the court system should run.  I am not the court system.  AMC and Comicon are not the court system.  The fact that OJ was found not guilty of murdering his wife and Ron Goldman doesn't mean that I think for a second that he didn't do it.  I didn't say anywhere that Hardwick should go to jail.  The issue isn't whether he's a criminal.  The issue is whether he's a dirtbag.  We don't send people to jail for being a dirtbag.  But if someone is a dirtbag, you might not want to participate in a panel or a show that he's hosting, for example.  Which is what actually happened at AMC.

It should be noted that AMC apparently reacted to his response the same way I did.  They made no decision and issued no statement until his response.  This despite pressure from guests on episodes of the show already filmed that didn't want those episodes to air.

In her statement, there are things that she says, probably not the things that stand out to most people reading it, that identify it as coming from someone who suffered severe emotional abuse.  So as I said, if this is fake, it is carefully crafted, and she must have gone to support groups and borrowed language from other people.  But now you're going down the route of a conspiracy theory.

His statement, on the other hand, has all the earmarks of an abuser.  Narcissistic egoism.  Complete lack of empathy for a person who is clearly suffering from something, even if he is certain he is in no way involved.  Complete inability to accept even an iota of responsibility that he might have somehow hurt her or wasn't perfect in the relationship.  Its almost stereotypical.

And by the way, in the few days since this broke, a lot of mutual friends during the relationship have come forward to confirm details of her statement.  So this may not be the hill anyone wants to die on.
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Marc M. Woolman
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Posted: 18 June 2018 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

So he should have empathy for an ex
that is falsely accusing him? (That's
what his response is saying) If she is
falsely accusing him , he should sue
her for all she's worth.

Anyone can take any argument or fight
they've ever had and twist the facts
slightly so they are 100% the victim.
That takes no special skill or
knowledge.

His response was restrained and well
composed if he is being falsely
accused.

The only people who have come out
publicly about this so far are the
current boyfriend of the ex, and
Hardwick's mother-in-law. Neither adds
any weight to situation.

This isn't a hill to die on, this is
reading two people's statements and
deciding not to judge either statement
without corroboration.

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Michael Sommerville
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Posted: 19 June 2018 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Do released text messages, if real, reinforce the abuser/victim narrative, create doubt or make waiting for verification/proof before ruining a career/reputation the best course of action. 

Edited by Michael Sommerville on 19 June 2018 at 1:39pm
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 19 June 2018 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I've heard stories about a particular independent publisher/editor that would definitely put them in with a lot of the Hollywood names that have been exposed. It's up to those they 'moved on' or pressured to say something though. I had never thought about it but once someone told me their experience in confidence I have to admit, yeah, that really seems to fit that person all right; I had no trouble believing it.

As it is I know that whenever I get some job some man may want they are going to say things about people having slept with someone. It's men who seem to be the ones making that situation, but then some blame women for it, all women. And no, I have never... and only once has someone I was interviewing for a job with made 'a move' and as I didn't respond I guess that's that and they either found someone who did or not and I didn't know how to even report something back then. Now I sure would. I have had all kinds of customers pull stuff though, what do you do when a customer grabs at you and stuff? I'm sure waitresses have it worst of all. Mostly you clam up and feel shitty for it, that they got away with behavior you didn't ask for or do anything to create, don't want to be one of those aggressive types you know. It's like telemarketers... who is it that buys from them, and who is it that say yes, thanks for grabbing me as I feel the same too? (sigh)

I'm sorry if some men are actually being victimized who are either innocent or honestly taken as being much worse than they intended, but women have been victimized for a long long time without too many empathizing with them, and for merely existing!


Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 19 June 2018 at 4:46pm
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Marc M. Woolman
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Posted: 19 June 2018 at 6:58pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

The texts TMZ obtained do seem to back
up Hardwick's statement. She cheated
on him, he dumped her, and she
subsequently texted him repeatedly
asking for one more chance and for
Hardwick to take her back.

Since their break-up, Hardwick has
moved on, become a newly wed and has
multiple TV shows. It does appear to
be sour grapes from an ex, at this
point.

Edited by Marc M. Woolman on 19 June 2018 at 6:59pm
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 19 June 2018 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

She said that she started seeing someone else before their relationship ended, and that she told him about it, in her statement.  So they back up her statement as much as his.  Asking him to take her back is not at odds with her being an abuse victim.  So you're the one continuing to jump to conclusions.
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Marc M. Woolman
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Posted: 19 June 2018 at 9:41pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

She admits she cheated,and repeatedly
asked for Hardwick to take her back.
This is not jumping to conclusions,
this is what Hardwick said happened,
and now the texts seemingly confirm
it.

Edited by Marc M. Woolman on 19 June 2018 at 9:42pm
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 27 June 2018 at 9:41pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

FWIW two of Hardwick's ex-girlfriends have now come forward to defend him. Saying he never abused them in any way when they dated him.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jacinda-barrett-defen ds-boyfriend-chris-hardwick-1123318



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Thomas Woods
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Posted: 06 July 2018 at 7:27pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

I, just today after seeing a video on it, looked up
exactly what Louis C.K. did. The questions I have:

Did the two women in his room immediately get up and
leave when he started to take his clothes off? If not,
why the hell did they stick around for the show?

Did the woman on the phone hang up as soon as she heard
what she did?

Edited by Thomas Woods on 06 July 2018 at 7:28pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 06 July 2018 at 8:10pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Did the two women in his room immediately get up and  leave when he started to take his clothes off? If not, why the hell did they stick around for the show?  

Did the woman on the phone hang up as soon as she heard what she did? 

-

What difference does that make?

Have you never been in a situation where someone is behaving inappropriately and you are too stunned to respond? Have you never been in a situation where someone in a position of power over you was behaving inappropriately and you are unsure how to respond?

Louis C.K. has already acknowledged what he did was wrong and has acknowledged the power dynamics of the incidents he was involved with. Why the victim blaming?

P.S. On at least one occasion, he blocked the door.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 07 July 2018 at 4:03am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Can't stand hearing mansplaining about how they would have "absolutely" done it when faced with the same situation.  "Why did you wear that dress?"  "Why did you talk to that man?"  "Why did you stay in that room?"  

It's fine to envision a world where every woman has a gun up her sleeve to combat  unwanted aggression or imagine a world in which every person evacuates from a situation at the least amount of aggression. But they don't, and we know they don't.  So to disparage them for not doing it, for what we think we'd do in a similar situation, is just wrong.  
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Petter Myhr Ness
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Posted: 08 July 2018 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Well said, Matt!
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 09 July 2018 at 8:05am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

This is a shame.

Mel B is on the receiving end of unwanted groping.


I know the incident is a few years old, but I just saw it yesterday. It's terrible.
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