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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 07 October 2017 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | 1
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John Byrne:
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| This is the first time I have encountered "SJW". It reminds me of the time Shooter patted himself on the back by announcing on the Bullpen page that he was ordering all writers and artists to read the mail that came in for them.
SOMETHING WE WERE ALREADY DOING!!! |
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Thing is, the term is used to signal derision at anyone with an ounce of socially progressive thought in them. Considering how comic book superheroes from the very start were performing such amazing feats as punching Hitler, stopping the Klan, standing up against wife-beaters, protecting the environment, and advocating for women's equality, that means a whole lot of characters were created to be literal warriors for social justice!
The only time you'll hear somebody call themselves a "social justice warrior" is to mock the idea that this would be a bad thing.
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Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14186
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| Posted: 07 October 2017 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 2
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2 minutes.
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 07 October 2017 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | 3
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Peter Martin:
QUOTE:
| And then, of course, the claim that you just stopped caring in the mid-90s, that you were just 'phoning it in'. The laziest, most subjective criticism to hand. There quite a few compliments in the video, but they are all more than a little backhanded. |
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A person has every right to their opinion/taste of liking a creator's output more (or not as much) during certain periods. This goes for comics, music, movies, novels, etc.
But you can't go assuming that someone was "phoning it in," or look into their mind and imagine that they no longer cared. Talk about a major presumption.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12438
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| Posted: 07 October 2017 at 5:49pm | IP Logged | 4
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"...and then in the mid-90s he [John Byrne] kinda just fell apart as an artist."
That's when I stopped watching it.
Fell apart as an artist.
Fell apart...?!?!
I can't see anything wrong with personally preferring any one artist's period over another. I have my preferences. But they don't mean anything as a judgment on the quality of the art!
This youtube boob prefers, he says, the Namor-era JB. I don't take it as coincidental that he opines JB's art "fell apart" (sheesh!) immediately after this. So often, too often, a fan will judge that his favorite period is also the best period.
"...fell apart..."
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15794
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| Posted: 07 October 2017 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 5
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All said, I do feel the art on Namor was, not to put too fine a point on it, the dog's bollocks.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 07 October 2017 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | 6
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There's a great many Marvel fans who now want the company to return to the kind of stories JB and other greats were making in the 80's and 90's. They want it so much that they would be very happy to see the current editorial regime completely replaced. The bad news is that these are also the "Byrne's old stuff was better" crowd.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 07 October 2017 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | 7
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The "SJW Marvel" thing is part of a big flame war on Twitter and Youtube between Marvel editors, writers and conservative-leaning critics. Basically, Marvel's current stories have become overtly Far Left, which seems to the be the final straw for many readers. They are finally saying what has been obvious for years, that whatever That Company is, it isn't Marvel. Unhappy fans isn't something that Marvel normally cares about. But what is different now is that Marvel's readership has dwindled to the point that the aforementioned Youtube reviewer has more subscribers than most of Marvel's books. In a few months he's gained 40K followers. If he continues to grow at this rate, will he have enough clout to ruin whatever Marvel book he dislikes?
Edited by Joe Zhang on 07 October 2017 at 6:30pm
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Jim Petersman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 625
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| Posted: 07 October 2017 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 8
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I love how he praises JB for being experimental and then turns right around and accuses him of just phoning in crap for a decade. I guess experimenting is ok only as long as he personally enjoys it.
He isn't, however, the first person I've heard talk about a "decline" in JB's art in the 90s, though. The best I've been able to figure out is people had a problem with the "chunkier" inking in this era. When I point out (what I at least perceive to be) the evolution in drapery, buildings/backgrounds, and more dynamic poses during this period, no one seems to care.
When JB used a thin line in some of his most recent work, the same folks proclaimed JB was back (or, as the guy in the video insinuated, IDW had JB back under control). When I mentioned the incredible evolution in his faces during this period, I just got blank stares.
Art, it would appear, is really just about line thickness to many, which is so weird to me. I suspect that this guy may fall into that category.
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Michael Sommerville
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 417
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| Posted: 07 October 2017 at 10:19pm | IP Logged | 9
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I think I have near every Byrne comic and do not understand the phoning it in comment. I do see the art adapt to the feel of the comic. The only drop in art quality is when he is not doing the drawing himself, with some exceptions. When did clean artwork become simple and cluttered become detailed. More lines does not always mean better when it comes to good art. When I look at costumes i will take the "simple" originals over the eyesores they use now.
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Robert Shepherd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 March 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 1268
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| Posted: 07 October 2017 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | 10
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I was tired of this guys backhanded compliments from the start.
I've gotten to the point that I am tired of ALL critics, especially those who can not do the job/task/art/work of the one they are critiquing.
My new creed is simple. "Do Better".
If you can't do better quit trying to tear down others who can.
I've been a bit more relaxed lately because of this creed. I've even curbed my own opinions because of it.
Do Better. Pass it on.
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marios ksidonas
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2015
Location: Greece
Posts: 106
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| Posted: 08 October 2017 at 1:54am | IP Logged | 11
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--I like how he assumes you make $400-500K a year---
It reminded me when i was in my previous job and a customer approached me and said "you are working too many hours but at least you get well payed!". when i asked her how much she believed i was getting paid she told 5 times the amount i was really taking.5 TIMES!!!!!that day i realized how far the truth exists between of what they think the others about you and what is really happening!
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Allan Summerall
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 489
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| Posted: 08 October 2017 at 5:52am | IP Logged | 12
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I watched the whole thing. Backhanded compliments & snark is this gentleman's schtick it seems. Aside from that, that duo-shade was the bee's knees on "Namor". Loved that book and indeed, some of JB's finest work.
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