Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
Star Trek
Byrne Robotics > Star Trek << Prev Page of 24 Next >>
Topic: TNG Revisited Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14982
Posted: 03 April 2018 at 4:08pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Definitely doing the movies, too!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14982
Posted: 04 April 2018 at 12:11am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

“Emergence”.


Oy. 

Well, at least Brannon Braga went in wanting to create “the ultimate holodeck episode” when coming up with this story. That being said, the episode takes the concept of a holodeck malfunction to an absurd extreme, with the holodeck essentially becoming alive and giving birth to a new life form. 

The whole schtick on the train (with the various characters serving as symbolic representations of the ship’s functions) feels too similar to Braga’s own “Phantasms”. And, as is usual in Braga scripts, it all comes down to mystery-plot mechanics rather than characters and themes. 


One of the worst episodes in the entire run? Yeah, I’d say so. It almost feels like it could have been a bad fanfic story, with the ship essentially coming alive. Yikes.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14982
Posted: 04 April 2018 at 1:21am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

*SPECIAL SURPRISE BONUS!*


JOURNEY’S END: THE SAGA OF STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION (the documentary, not the episode).



A typical behind-the-scenes documentary of its era, which aired the week after “Emergence”, and as the lead-in to a TNG viewer’s choice marathon. Hosted by Jonathan Frakes (who filmed segments aboard the 1701-D Bridge in its future incarnation from the series’ finale), it serves as both a TNG retrospective and promotional piece for “All Good Things...” and STAR TREK GENERATIONS. Watching it again reminds me of just how close we were to having three STAR TREK TV series running during the same year AND a STAR TREK movie in theaters. If VOYAGER had premiered just one month earlier than it actually did, then 1994 would have been the TREKiest year of all time. 

This period—from around 1993-1996–was surely the franchise at its apex. Flash-forward to now, with the Abramsverse films having ground to a halt, and STD quarantined behind a paywall. I find myself missing the 90s.

I’ve never forgotten the bit in the documentary where Marina Sirtis guest-conducts the orchestra, since it features one of those sustained-note cues which is a obvious fade to commercial moment. Whenever I think of the music of TNG/DS9/VGR/ENT, I think of that sort of samey music they all employed, and all of those sustained notes that took us to commercial.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Brian Rhodes
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2878
Posted: 04 April 2018 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Yes, there's a lot of hulabaloo surrounding "shared universes" these days, but Trek was doing it over 20 years ago. Two shows and a movie series running concurrently...set in the same universe (multiverse) as two (or three, if you count TAS) previous tv series (and the first set of movies)...plus ENTERPRISE (again, if you count it).

It spanned nearly 40 years real time and what, over 200 years in "story time"?  

Not too shabby.


Edited by Brian Rhodes on 04 April 2018 at 11:12am
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14982
Posted: 05 April 2018 at 12:42am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

“Preemptive Strike”.


Speaking of shared universes, this episode heavily focuses on the Maquis, which had debuted in DS9, just a few weeks prior. Of course, “Journey’s End” set up the formation of the Maquis, but this is their first (and final) appearance in TNG, and I could see that being a bit jarring for a first-time viewer watching only TNG from start to finish. There are enough contextual and dialogue clues to explain who the Maquis are, but the episode is somewhat dependent upon knowledge of what was going on in DS9.

Anyway, it’s good to see Ensign—now Lieutenant—Ro get proper closure. The character had a promising start, but she just sort of disappeared after a handful of appearances. On the flipside, the end of the episode leaves her actual story unresolved.

This episode is very well-directed by Patrick Stewart, particularly the wonderful scene where Picard and Ro meet in the bar to discuss the status of her mission. It’s really interesting choice to have a tense and dramatic conversation between the two while they’re intimately stroking and whispering to each other while pretending to be a hooker with a potential John. The juxtaposition of the facade with the actual conversation being had is just marvelous. 

It’s also nice (and appropriate) to have that climatic scene between Ro and Riker as she makes her choice to join the Maquis. His reaction is really interesting, too. Not anger or disappointment. Rather, it’s resignation tinged with fear and sadness. Great little moment for Frakes, there.

And, of course, Ro’s decision to turn traitor is a nice stab to the gut. This is basically the sort of thing Nick Meyer had wanted to do with Saavik in THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY, but wasn’t able to implement. It works really well, here, since Ro is a character we’d gotten to know (and perhaps even like) during her too-few prior appearances. 


A really solid and interesting episode, and one of the stronger episodes of this seventh and final season.


Only one episode to go (...technically two, since the TV movie version of the series finale was broken up into two parts for syndication. However, I’ll wait for both to re-air over the next two nights and then watch them back-to-back.).
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14982
Posted: 05 April 2018 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

It occurs to me that if Heroes & Icons’ repeat cycle for TNG had started just a few days earlier, I could have rewatched FIRST CONTACT on First Contact Day (April 5)! So close!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Rob Ocelot
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 December 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 936
Posted: 06 April 2018 at 7:42pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Did we ever hear the reasons why Ro Laren wasn't used in DS-9?

Same old rights/royalties issue with the original writer or was it reluctance on Michelle Forbes' part to not take on the role?  (It's pretty rare for an actor to turn down a regular gig on a weekly series, but not unheard of)

Mind you, I think Kira eventually became a much more interesting character than Ro but it's pretty obvious during the first season (and the pilot in particular) that most of Kira's scenes were intended for Ro.


Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14982
Posted: 06 April 2018 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Same old rights/royalties issue with the original writer or was it reluctance on Michelle Forbes' part to not take on the role? (It's pretty rare for an actor to turn down a regular gig on a weekly series, but not unheard of)
+++++++++++++

Forbes was offered the job, but turned it down for whatever reason.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14982
Posted: 07 April 2018 at 1:07am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

“All Good Things...”.



Well, here we are. I have fond memories or seeing this when it originally aired, and it still holds up, nearly 24 years later. This episode is a wonderful reflection upon the previous seven years’ worth of stories and character develop. So many wonderful little touches and references. 

The anti-time future has a lot of interesting little details. Data’s life, in particular, is full of nice character-revealing bits: He’s surrounded by cats, has a skunk-stripe, and can finally use contractions and understand human idioms. The producers also threw LeVar Burton a bone by giving anti-time future Geordi cybernetic eyes. There’s also the implication that Geordi married Leah Brahms. Of course, all of the events in all three time periods seen in this episode technically never happened (expect for Picard’s personal experience of time-shifting), so that’s a moot point.

The anti-time past brilliantly takes us back to a point literally just before the pilot episode began. Of course, Denise Crosby comes back as Tasha Yar one more time, but we also have an expanded role for O’Brien, since Colm Meaney had played the then-unnamed Conn officer in the pilot. This was a particularly clever move, since they obviously couldn’t feature Riker, Crusher, or La Forge in that time period, since it would have required Jonathan Frakes to shave his beard. But, cleverly, beardless Riker is still represented via the use of stock footage from “The Arsenal of Freedom”. 

There are a few nitpicks (Crosby’s hair doesn’t quite match her pilot hairstyle, Data’s got the wrong rank pips, etc.), but the recreation of the pilot episode is a lovely way to look back. Picard silently watching the naive Data taking O’Brien’s statement about “burning the midnight oil” literally is a wonderful moment, as is his silently looking at the Enterprise lineage sculpture art (which is missing from the “present-day” ship) in the conference lounge. This finale goes out of its way to remind us just how far all of the characters have come since that initial two-hour telefilm. 

Of course, the episode comes down to Q and the ongoing trial of humanity, which is really a kind of full-circle masterstroke. Up until now, it seemed that Q had started out as an antagonist who’d morphed into a sort of recurring pest. The finale reveals that the pilot episode’s trial never actually ended, and, as a result, it serves as a wonderful little metaphor for STAR TREK’s ongoing exploration of the nature of humanity and the infinite possibilities of the future. Some great moments for John De Lancie, here, especially the bit where he’s about to whisper some great revelation in Picard’s ear and then thinks better of it.

More importantly, this finale emphasizes just how much the crew have grown as people and bonded as a family, over the past seven years. And nowhere is this driven home more than in the final scene of the episode, where Picard finally comes to play poker with his crew/family. Those final moments (“...and the sky’s the limit.”) are about as perfect an ending to any TV series as I’ve ever seen. It leaves us with a sense that these people have grown and changed for the better, and that, to coin a phrase, the human adventure is just beginning. No climatic ending, no dramatic changes. The Enterprise will keep on doing its thing...at least until we get to the movies.

It really is a perfect ending for the show, and for these characters. If there’d been nothing made after this, I’d have been satisfied. As it is, I’m still glad we got the movies, since I enjoy spending time with these characters. It’s just unfortunate that the actual ending we got (the ill-fated NEMESIS) is nowhere in the same ballpark as this finale. Ron Moore, who co-wrote the finale with Brannon Braga, has stated that the series finale turned out better than GENERATIONS, which went into filming just before production wrapped in TNG itself.


A wonderful wrap-up for TNG. I’ve had a great time revisiting the show, but I’ll save my final thoughts until I’m truly done with this review.

On to the movies!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 5741
Posted: 07 April 2018 at 10:31am | IP Logged | 10 post reply


As much as Season Seven didn't move me in the least, and I was starting to get burned out on all the STAR TREK at the time, I must have re-watched that Series Finale about 10 times in a row, after its initial airing.

Definitely one of the all-time great TV finales ever produced.  Loved it.



Back to Top profile | search
 
Jason Scott
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 August 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 812
Posted: 07 April 2018 at 5:22pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I do love that Data moment. The one time I met Brent Spiner I told him that I liked how he was able to recapture his old take on Data. It really showed how much Data had progressed, which because it was relatively subtle over the seasons, had been easy to take for granted.

As for the episode itself, as finales go, it's a good one all right. Especially the ending. Though I wish they hadn't cut the episode(s) so much on the original broadcast version. As I really like the slightly longer version with the extended Q scenes.


Edited by Jason Scott on 07 April 2018 at 5:23pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 7519
Posted: 07 April 2018 at 7:56pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I'm a complete Grinch in regards to the TNG finale. I find it to be packed to the rafters with tropes and crutches that I despise every time I come across them. 

The first is Our Hero Screwed Up. This is now and has always been my least favorite set-up for a story. I'm all for fallibility in our characters, but stories in which every subsequent death and disaster taking place is contingent upon the good guy screwing the pooch shut down my enjoyment of a story immediately. (See also: Every single DS9 Mirror Universe episode.) 

Here, Picard's calling for the tachyon scan beam in the original timeline creates the problem which is then exacerbated when he doubles and then triples down on the order in the others. Picard's unique ability to constantly blow up his own ship and crew is taken to a bizarre extreme by having his screw-up be responsible for the eradication of humanity and countless other races by retroactively screwing everything up going back to the dawn of time. We have to take Q's word for it, of course, that humanity never existed due to the background chroniton radiation or whatever it was from the time rift and NOT Q dipping his hand into the protozoic goo and swishing it around. 

The second trope that irritates me is the time traveler who's so gosh-darned starry-eyed and nostalgic to be back in the old neighborhood with all his old pals that he just babbles on to everyone about how great they are and how terrific everything is going to be in the future... Wolverine was exactly the WRONG character to go nostalgia-tripping this way in the DOFP film, "First Contact" was lousy with it, and Picard really should know better than to pull this crap as well. Unfortunately, the fact that no one pays much heed to his lunatic reminiscences and instead looks at one another as if the next five years are going to be spent under the command of a complete moron leads to trope number three...

The "Our Hero Has Lost His Mind. Let's Not Listen To Him" bit. Picard's, what was it? Irrumatic Syndrome was the ultimate lazy writer's tool to keep everyone looking quizzically at the mad old coot and only grudgingly giving him his way when the plot required it. A similar set of circumstance occurs in the similarly much-lauded "Yesterday's Enterprise" when Picard only has Guinan's word on it that the timeline is askew and angrily shouts at her that's "Not good enough! Not good enough!!" Except in the next scene when, no, as it turns out, it's exactly good enough for him to order a ship full of doomed souls to their deaths. Everyone digs in their heels but then, no, it's okay. Give him what he wants. I feel my chain being yanked by the writers every minute this type of scenario plays out onscreen. 

Tropes aside, the final insult of this episode for me is the whole "Time Runs Backwards" realization. The crew knew enough about what was happening at the start of the episode to dub the phenomenon "Anti-Time." Exactly which direction did they think it was going to run?

But no, Q is all "Your mind became open to possibilities you'd NEVER considered before! THAT is the TRUE frontier! Not of space, but of the MIND!" It took two hours and the death of everything in the space sector to come to a completely obvious conclusion, which is then, hey, (yawn... look! A temporal anomaly!) magicked back into having never taken... place... at... all... (snore.)

And what saves the life of every single thing for billions of light years in every direction? Picard turning off the beam he should never have switched on in the first place. You're kidding, right? 

But yeah, nice scene at the card table at the end.

"All Good Things" is somewhat similar to the TOS crew's send-off in The Undiscovered Country. The emotional beats feel right, but the plot and writing only hold up because we want them to so badly.  


Edited by Brian Hague on 07 April 2018 at 8:01pm
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14982
Posted: 07 April 2018 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I believe Moore and/or Braga have openly admitted that the finale was full-on fanservice, but I think it was earned in this case.

I'm not the biggest fan of the story or the mechanics of it, either, and enjoy the finale more for how it reflects upon the characters, their relationships, and the journey of the show over seven seasons. The actual plot doesn't really provide a satisfying and coherent narrative, but the warm and fuzzy moments work really well.

There's also a major plot error, in that the Pasteur creates the anomaly with the tachyon beam in the future, instead of the Enterprise-D. The anomaly was supposed to have been generated by the Enterprise-D's specific tachyon carrier wave in all three timelines in order for it to exist in the first place.

Edited by Greg Kirkman on 07 April 2018 at 8:20pm
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 7519
Posted: 07 April 2018 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

It's been a while since I watched the damned thing, but you're right. What should have occurred once the Pasteur activated its tachyon beam was that everything in the Trek universe since the dawn of time should have become ruthlessly and unrelentingly homogenized... Which is sort of the effect of the Berman era in general... :-)

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Joe Boster
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3112
Posted: 07 April 2018 at 9:07pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Yeah all All Good things was a rush job in every aspect. They had to rush on the script, having just come back from a well deserved vacation after writing Generations. Stewart and Spiner were both exausted from particularly taxing episodes, and the shooting was rushed as well. Plus pre-produciton going on for Generations. It really shouldn't be as good as is it. (I think they said in the 50 Years.. book that the budget was tight too. 

I just finished the American Indian one. Which I thought was one of the better ones this season. Season 7 has been a bit of a miss over all for me.  Seven seasons 3 good ones. I will never understand the need  for the whole A Story and B story being completely unconnected to anything. So much wasted time. I think this also leads to the feeling of a lack of urgency. Kinda like: Look the ship is in danger and we're all about to die. Worf has parenting problems with Alexander, and Tori will be a step mom. Don't worry, though it will all be fine right after the last commercial break. 

( Based on the way Sirtis talked about she hated the Tori worf romance I expected it to be longer!) 

Greg you should break out your 50 year mission books and read about the movies after you watch them. Because it's all production side and very little of the actors. It's a great read. 


Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14982
Posted: 07 April 2018 at 11:53pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I really do need to read those books, dagnabbit!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Joe Boster
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3112
Posted: 08 April 2018 at 11:36am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Overall it's a bit frustrating because I like the TNG characters more and the acting is better. But the scripts are so much worse. I guess that's berman being the torch-holder for the Great Bird?? Frim what Understand the network gave the staff free reign and almost no "notes"

Thanks again for the Ride, Greg, always an enjoyable perspective. Looking forward to finshing this series tomorrow.  Fllowed by a rewatch of the Locutus 2 parted that's been re-edited into a one parter on Amazon. 
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Rob Ocelot
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 December 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 936
Posted: 08 April 2018 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

What should have occurred once the Pasteur activated its tachyon beam was that everything in the Trek universe since the dawn of time should have become ruthlessly and unrelentingly homogenized... Which is sort of the effect of the Berman era in general... :-)

The look and feel of ENTERPRISE and DISCOVERY are proof that's what actually happened. :-)
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12036
Posted: 08 April 2018 at 11:19pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

I'm a complete Grinch in regards to the TNG finale. I find it to be packed to the rafters with tropes and crutches that I despise every time I come across them. 

——

Me too. I was really disappointed by the finale when it originally aired. I thought it was just a rehash of better episodes, including “Tapestry” and “Parallels”. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14982
Posted: 09 April 2018 at 2:26am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

STAR TREK GENERATIONS (1994).


A mere seven months after the TNG finale aired, the first TNG film hit theaters. I well remember seeing it in the theater. Upon rewatching it, I must say that I found more to like this time around, but it’s still very much a mixed bag.

At the very least, the film gets to do something which TOS never got to. It is literally a big-screen version of TNG. Same sets (with modifications), same uniforms and equipment, same sound effects, same music. It’s all just bigger and more cinematic. The few changes which have been made would be easy to explain, in-universe. Of course, the lighting and angles are all very different from the TV series, the former due in part to many scenes taking place in the light of the Armagosa star. And, hey, Worf FINALLY gets a chair! 

There are a lot of nice nods to established TNG continuity (perhaps too many for the casual moviegoer to keep up with), and the story of the Duras sisters ends here. Props to Moore and Braga: The film works pretty well as a sequel to both TNG and (for moviegoers who might only have been familiar with TREK via the films) THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY. The use of Guinan as the link between both time periods is a really clever touch.

Lots of familiar faces in the film, too, such as Jenette Goldstein, Tim Russ, Alan Ruck, and Brian Thompson. Malcolm McDowell is clearly having fun playing things arch, and he’s a joy to watch, as always.

It’s also neat to see the DS9 uniforms used in much the same manner as the short-sleeved fatigues from THE MOTION PICTURE. For those who don’t know, the uniforms were redesigned for the film, but the new versions were scrapped at the very last minute, and the DS9 uniforms were then thrown in to provide some sense of freshness to the look. Due to the lack of time to make new jumpsuits, Jonathan Frakes wore Avery Brooks’ DS9 uniform, and LeVar Burton wore Colm Meaney’s, and the fit is terrible. That said, I do prefer the use of the DS9 uniforms to the inclusion of yet another design. The DS9 uniforms were designed to be distinctive from those seen on TNG, but that really doesn’t make sense, in terms of a military uniform code of conduct. Everyone in Starfleet should be, well, uniform. Treating the DS9 jumpsuits as “Class B” uniforms for the TNG crew makes some sense.

Lots of little references and continuity bits to enjoy. Picard and Data get the most to do, naturally, and the others are just sort of there. We’re left hanging as to whether Worf and Troi are still an item. Patrick Stewart has some wonderful acting moments as Picard deals with the deaths of his brother and nephew. Spiner gets a number of unforgettable comedy moments as Data’s emotions go wild after he installs the emotion chip (which looks nothing like the one in “Descent”). Mr. Tricorder, anyone? These wacky comedy bits are obviously there to engage moviegoers with a barrage of jokes, but Spiner certainly makes them funny, even if the whole thing is played way, way over-the-top. 

The destruction of the Enterprise-D has none of the impact or emotion that the loss of the original ship did. It feels like a commercial move, more than anything. Indeed, the whole point of destroying the ship was to replace it with a new design that was more friendly to the CinemaScope aspect ratio. But, after seven years aboard that ship, its destruction feels kinda hollow. There’s also the unintentionally hilarious moment where Picard casually leaves the priceless Kurlan naiskos (which he was completely reverent toward in “The Chase”) in the wreckage of the ready room, a moment pointed out (complete with dubbed-in breaking sound) in RedLetterMedia’s really funny and insightful review of the film (which I’ll soon be rewatching).

The fundamental mistake of GENERATIONS was making it a “passing of the torch” story. Kirk and crew had a fitting send-off in THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY. About 75% of GENERATIONS works as a decent TNG story. If it had been refined, and hadn’t dragged Kirk in, it could have worked very well as a debut film for the TNG cast. As it is, it’s not really satisfying as either a TNG or TOS story. The themes and ideas are there, but they don’t come together in a satisfying way. It all feels like a rather incongruous patchwork quilt. Individual segments work, but the whole is episodic and doesn’t really flow.

As a TNG film, it works decently enough. “All Good Things” is stronger. However, as previously noted, even that story isn’t exactly great. And, man, does GENERATIONS ever fail on the TOS front. Moore and Braga have stated that their reach exceeded their grasp when writing the film, and I agree. I can see what they were going for, in terms of themes and whatnot, but it just doesn’t work. Kirk’s death is an unforgivably “meh” moment. There’s also his original death scene (being shot in the back by Soran), which test audiences reacted negatively to, necessitating a last-minute rewrite and reshoot. Neither version works very well.

It doesn’t help that Shatner is in full ham mode, here. He feels closer to the Kirk of STAR TREK V than of II, III, IV, or VI. The scene where Picard finally meets Kirk almost comes across as campy fanfiction. Also, Kirk having retired from Starfleet (ostensibly in-between THE MOTION PICTURE and THE WRATH OF KHAN) and having yet another serious ex-girlfriend we didn’t know about just comes out of nowhere. It has no emotional impact, and doesn’t really do anything to deepen Kirk’s character. Some fans were upset that Antonia wasn’t Edith Keeler, but I’m not entirely sure that Kirk’s ultimate fantasy life would be anything other than him on the Bridge of the Enterprise.


Meanwhile, Picard’s Nexus fantasy is very interesting, in terms of his character’s journey. In the TNG pilot, he was the stern old man who hated children. Here, his deepest fantasy is a life where he is surrounded by children. Of course, within five minutes of Dickensian fun, he sees through the fantasy (something no one else, including Guinan and F***ING CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK was ever able to do) and wants out. He and Kirk also simply...leave the Nexus. At will. In contrast to what Guinan says about having to be pulled out. What makes Picard so easily able to dismiss the addictiveness of the Nexus’ eternal joy, aside from plot necessity? Oy.

Personally, I feel that there was never any need to bring Kirk into the TNG era. I think that his final fate should probably have remained unknown. JB’s brilliant fan-theory is that it’s all Picard’s Nexus fantasy, which works for me. But, canonically, Jim Kirk died under a bridge instead of on one, and was buried by Picard under a pile of rocks, instead of being taken home with the 1701-D survivors. Ugh. 

Scotty and Chekov get their cameos, although it’s obvious that their dialogue was originally written for Spock and McCoy. Nimoy and Kelley rightly declined to appear in the film, and I don’t think that their brief presence would have improved things very much. I do appreciate the opening sequence for finally showing the Enterprise-B, and for all of the cool shots of that ship leaving spacedock, which homage THE MOTION PICTURE. Indeed, the model and effects work in this movie still hold up. The ships really look massive, and those shooting models have a physicality and mass which even modern CGI still can’t quite capture. Of course, there are also some reused FX shots from THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY in there, too. Also, the film’s teaser trailer even features stock shots from the TNG TV series!

All in all, a mixed bag. But, there are still a lot of good and fun moments, even if the whole doesn’t really work. I’ll soon be rewatching the deleted scenes, the original making-of promo documentary, and the RedLetterMedia review. 
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 111597
Posted: 09 April 2018 at 6:20am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Based on their own established continuity, to that point, including Guinan as "Chorus", the whole thing (along with the subsequent TNG movies) can only work as Picard's menopausal fantasy.

• Meets Kirk, sees him die

• Defeats the Borg, including the never-before-seen female (!) embodiment of the Collective

• Rebels against Star Fleet (and gets laid)

• Defeats his younger self!!!!

Plus, we know from Scotty's account in "Relics" that Kirk was not sucked into the Nexus.

In all it comes to one incredible rookie mistake, writing-wise: basing one's whole story on something the audience know isn't true (Kirk in the Nexus).

Back to Top profile | search
 
Ted Downum
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2035
Posted: 09 April 2018 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I found Generations a huge disappointment. Malcolm McDowell always gives good value for the entertainment dollar, and I liked getting a look at the Enterprise-B, but that's about all I enjoyed. Bringing in the TOS crew felt totally gratuitous. I can understand why Paramount would have wanted to set up a "passing of the torch" for casual fans, but it didn't work for me in the slightest.


Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Casselman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 955
Posted: 09 April 2018 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

I thought the Enterprise crew looked much better in the DS9/VOY era uniforms. Tho' I'm not sure I'd describe them as a 'class B' uniform compared to the TNG uniform. I was in the Army at the time GENERATIONS came out, and even then I ran into several variations of not only the standard forest BDUs (a lighter, 'warm weather' and a thicker 'cold weather' version), but also the chocolate-chip vs blended color desert BDUs... and this was only a few years after all-olive-green fatigues had just been phased out! 
The gradual phasing out of the TNG era uniforms, from the time of "All Good Things..." through the Voyager pilot was one of the closest bits of 'true military' verisimilitude I appreciated out of the picture. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12036
Posted: 09 April 2018 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Of course, within five minutes of Dickensian fun

——

Picard’s Nexus fantasy made sense as a showcase for Patrick Stewart, famed British actor, but was completely nonsensical Captain Jean-Luc Picard, explorer, archaeologist, and diplomat.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Steven McCauley
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1414
Posted: 09 April 2018 at 9:38am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I thought the same thing about Kirk's Nexus fantasy.  Shatner may have wanted to ride horses all day or spend time in a cabin in the mountains, but nothing we had seen of Kirk's backstory made either of those fantasies authentic.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 

<< Prev Page of 24 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login