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Michael Penn
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Posted: 11 September 2017 at 5:43am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

The part-title from another thread -- KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAN! -- leads me to ask aficionados of the original series: 

[1] when and to what degree did Kirk ever lose emotional control in "Star Trek," provided he was in his right mind, of course?

[2] if Kirk did not exhibit a loss of emotional control originally, was "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!" an unfortunate over-the-top choice in acting/direction that led much more of the same in the movies?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 September 2017 at 8:11am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Kirk showed flashes of anger when his decisions were questioned, or when he felt his crew was not performing properly, but I would not say he was ever really "out of control" -- except, as you note, when the balance of his mind was disturbed.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 11 September 2017 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Was Kirk truly out of control emotionally with his "Khaaaaaaaan!" moment or was he selling the fiction that he was stranded on Genesis?

The audience is certainly led to believe he is out of control, as is Khan, but then we learn later on that Kirk had a way out up his sleeve all along, which raises a question mark over how genuine that anger was.


Edited by Peter Martin on 11 September 2017 at 8:59am
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 11 September 2017 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I think he's genuinely ticked off that Khan has killed a bunch of people and gotten his hands on Genesis, but is also play-acting a wee bit to make Khan overconfident.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 11 September 2017 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

There's a great STAR TREK issue (#47, published by DC, circa 1988) where an officer from another ship starts making rash decisions after a landing party are butchered by Romulans. The officer, whose name I do not recall, frequently comments on how he is imitating Kirk. The story is about how Kirk's reputation precedes him; the perception is that he is a rule-breaker and a maverick.

Kirk says this:

"I use the system to my advantage - dancing around the letter of the law if necessary - but I never, ever break the rules to satisfy my own whims."

That issue stayed with me. For better or worse, Kirk did have a reputation in Starfleet for being emotional and a maverick - but in the aforementioned issue, he had to clean up the mess made by the rash officer of the other ship, hence his words above.

I think he mastered his emotions. He let his anger/emotions serve him, but he never served his anger/emotions.

In my humble opinion, of course (and from what I can tell, having read many issues, DC, and Marvel, did try and stick very closely to the movie incarnations).
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 11 September 2017 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I think he's genuinely ticked off that Khan has killed a bunch of people and gotten his hands on Genesis, but is also play-acting a wee bit to make Khan overconfident.

Exactly that.

And, "Khan...I'm laughing at the 'superior intellect.'" While it makes Kirk sound cocky, it's more him pushing the right buttons.

I don't think Kirk truly indulges in over-the-top rage or arrogance, but can definitely "put it on"...
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 11 September 2017 at 7:03pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply


 QUOTE:
I think he's genuinely ticked off that Khan has killed a bunch of people and gotten his hands on Genesis, but is also play-acting a wee bit to make Khan overconfident.

Yes. However, I'm not really asking about the logic of the story within TWOK, but rather about the consistency of portrayal between TOS and TWOK. 

Does this "Khaaaaaaaaaan!" moment as a choice in acting/directing jibe excellently well with the Kirk shown in the original series?

(I ask in that way because TWOK is certainly among the Star Trek movies regarded as one of if not the best, as the most excellent of them all.)


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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 11 September 2017 at 7:51pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I think part of the point of TWOK is that Kirk is no longer the same guy he was in TOS. I mean, he still is on a fundamental level, but he's older and slightly off his game in TWOK. The film is very much about him getting back into the saddle.

And, of course, the Kirk who was willing to finally let the Enterprise go in TSFS is a different guy than the one who said, "Never lose you. Never.", fifteen years earlier.

I'm not quite sure if TOS Kirk would have screamed Khan's name in the same way, but we never saw him in quite the same sort of situation during TOS: facing a madman who was personally obsessed with killing him to the exclusion of all else.

Playing to Khan's ego and making him overconfident is a tactic Kirk uses throughout TWOK. He basically uses Khan's obsession with him to make Khan overconfident and/or blind with rage.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 11 September 2017 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Thanks for your thoughts, Greg.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 11 September 2017 at 10:00pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Always a pleasure!
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