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Warren Scott
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Posted: 07 September 2017 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Talk about the discrepancies between the Star Trek characters in the various films and JB's valid assertion that the Darth Vader seen in the first Star Wars film is not the same character in the others has led me to consider this question:
What character or characters were changed most radically for the sequel or sequels that followed their first appearance?
My vote goes for Janine, office manager for the Ghostbusters, who went from an assertive bookworm to an a nerdy airhead to justify her dating Louis in "Ghostbusters 2."
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 08 September 2017 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Freddy Krueger. He went from being a menacing character to someone who was akin to an unfunny uncle at a wedding. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 08 September 2017 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

James Kirk morphed into a caricature of William Shatner.

Between the first and second movies, someone hit RESET on RoboCop.

And, yeah, Vader.

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Petter Myhr Ness
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Posted: 08 September 2017 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Inspector Clouseau went from simply gullible to a complete moron within a couple of movies.

And does Bond count, stretched over time? 
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 08 September 2017 at 9:37am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

And does Bond count, stretched over time? 

***

Hmmm, I'd debate that, Petter. 

Excluding the Daniel Craig era, the others pretty much feel the same. Maybe my memory is misleading me, but although there were differences - Dalton's humour was dry and rarely used - it does feel like the same character for me.

It may be subtle. Roger Moore is less of a blunt instrument than Sean Connery (although Moore's bond was capable of some merciless acts, i.e. letting that thug fall in TSWLM). Dalton and Brosnan's Bond were less humorous than Moore/Connery. But the continuity from 1962 to 2002 could have been worse, I feel. I don't feel they are radically different.

But unless I do a Bond marathon of all films from 1962 to 2002, I could well be wrong.
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Sergio Calvet
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Posted: 08 September 2017 at 11:08am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

My vote would be for Dr. Marcus Brody.
We didn't see much of him on Raiders of the Lost Ark but to me he seemed a different character on Last Crusade.


Edited by Sergio Calvet on 08 September 2017 at 11:08am
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 08 September 2017 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Indiana Jones. The costume is the only thing that successfully made it from Raiders to Temple of Doom intact. The quiet, careful, skeptic haunted by his days with Abner and Marion Ravenwood became a boasting, magic-using, womanizing James Bond knock-off complete with white tuxedo. And it was supposed to be a "prequel".
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 08 September 2017 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Between the first and second movies, someone hit RESET on RoboCop.
------------------------------------------------------
This was the one I thought of first -- the Old Man, in particular.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 08 September 2017 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

If I'm allowed an expanse of years, I'd like to suggest Batman. Adam West had something of a different appearance and approach to Ben Affleck or Christian Bale.

And I'm not sure Affleck could pull off a scene with a can of Bat Shark Repellent, to be honest. ;)
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 08 September 2017 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

You're allowed an expanse of years, but they have to be sequels. Batman Begins was not a sequel to the Adam West Batman film.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 08 September 2017 at 5:17pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I'm going to throw into the ring Clarice Starling from Silence of the Lambs to Hannibal. Clarice in Silence was one of the great heroines in cinematic history. Clarice in Hannibal was a total betrayal.

Edited by Peter Martin on 08 September 2017 at 5:17pm
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 08 September 2017 at 9:32pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Clarice in Hannibal is a total betrayal, because that's how she was in the book. Be glad the movie also had a total different ending than the book!!!!


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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 September 2017 at 9:16am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

And I'm not sure Affleck could pull off a scene with a can of Bat Shark Repellent, to be honest. ;)

Affleck is not the best casting. Someone with that distinctive a cleft in his chin should consider a different style mask!!

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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 09 September 2017 at 9:29am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Han Solo.  By Return of the Jedi, he bore no special resemblance to the cocky, confident scoundrel character we first met. 
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 09 September 2017 at 10:08am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Peter Martin - whoops, sorry. Didn't know I had made a mistake on your topic.

As you refer to "Batman Begins" I'm curious what makes it a not-sequel in your opinion? It has Bruce Wayne and Batman. It has Alfred. It has stately Wayne Manor. Commissioner Gordon is in it. There's a romance in it. It has the Batmobile and batarangs. Granted, Ra's al-Ghul and Scarecrow weren't in the Batman movie, but I kinda thought that a sequel could spread to other characters.

Please tell me what makes it a not-sequel - I would like to know what you think. Thanks!
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 09 September 2017 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I'd say the Bruce Wayne in BATMAN BEGINS is not the same character we see in its sequels.

In BEGINS, he disappears as a young man to return 7 years later, having lived with and learned from criminals and warlords, and is driven to become perceived as more than just a man, but a symbol. Unkillable. Unstoppable. The Batman.

In THE DARK KNIGHT, he expels a great deal of effort into no longer being Batman. It's been, what, 6 months? A year? And he's trying to ditch because of a skirt. She dies because of some criminal lunatic, so you'd think he'd double down on the whole crime fighting thing.

But no, after that movie, he quits being Batman for 8 years. In THE DARK KNIGHT RISES, he comes out of retirement, blindly follows the lead of two women who both betray him. Gets his back broken, goes thru a Rocky training montage to get back to speed, then fights the guy that crippled him pretty much the exact same way he fought him the first time. Except with a still-healing spine, this time. Nice plan. Somehow, things work out. And he quits being Batman. Again. To be with the woman who's duplicity got his back broken. And just after the other one tried to blow up his city.

Over the course of 3 movies spanning around 30 years, he spends about 8 years trying to become Batman, 8 years straight not being Batman, and spends less than 2 years actually as Batman (the rest is spent growing from a child to a young adult, struggling for a way to deal with his grief and loss).

At the end of BEGINS, Gordon says, "I never said 'thank you.'"
Batman replies, "And you'll never have to." And does his jump-off-the-building-into-the-night thing.

I assumed he said that because he would always be there to fight the good fight.

I didn't realize Gordon would never have to say 'thank you' because Batman would end up just not doing that much.



Edited by Brian Rhodes on 09 September 2017 at 3:54pm
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 09 September 2017 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Brian, I'd certainly appreciate it (feel free to say no) if you'd let me share that with a friend. I'd state that they were NOT my words and that I'd read them on a forum. Those are interesting points, I'd like to share them with a friend. 


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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 September 2017 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

I caught a few minutes of THE DARK KNIGHT the other night, and was struck once again by how quickly Nolan went into a nose dive once he was let off the leash following the success of BEGINS. "The Joker's" absurd escape from the bank sets the tone of the whole movie.
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 09 September 2017 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Knock yourself out, Robbie. 
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 09 September 2017 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Appreciate it. :)

I hadn't thought that way until I saw your post. I haven't seen any of those movies since their theatrical releases. 
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 10 September 2017 at 1:22am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Regarding Affleck`s cleft chin,years ago Alan Davis did
little sketches in a UK comic catalogue,casting actors
of the time as superheroes,one was Kirk Douglas as
Daredevil,my first thought was of his distinctive chin
cleft!
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Jason Scott
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Posted: 10 September 2017 at 4:01am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Would The Terminator count?

Heck, even if the titular character doesn't, an argument could be made that Sarah Connor is almost a completely different person in T2 than she was in the first movie. (Though the extended edition does give her some opening up scenes that help bridge the gap a bit.)

And Conrad, I agree with you on Han Solo. It seemed like they went out of their way to try and eliminate any similarities with Ford's Indiana Jones that he was portraying in the same period, but of course went way too far. That to me is actually the worst thing about ROTJ.
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Brandon Frye
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Posted: 10 September 2017 at 8:06pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Michael Corleone in Godfather 3


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Steven Myers
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Posted: 10 September 2017 at 8:32pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Sometimes a character changes due to growth. That's good. Sometimes sequels try to undo growth to rewind a character to the original state. (One of the reason I didn't like the Austin Powers sequel) But sometimes a character appears that is a totally different person!

Marcus Brody was a competent professor, who even commented that he would be going on the quest for the Ark in his younger days. Implying he has had such adventures in the past.  In Crusade, he's a bumbling fool!
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 11 September 2017 at 12:06am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

There's a sort of fascinating double-standard when it comes to character growth in live-action fiction. On traditional TV shows, characters have tended not to change, in order to keep the status quo (and thus the series) going. 

In movies, growth is sort of expected (consciously or not) by the audience. In a finite, two-hour or so story, a character should learn, grow, or come to experience some kind of significant wrap-up to the story being told.

(As an aside, I recently watched a video analysis on YouTube which posits that GHOSTBUSTERS is a movie about nothing. That is, the characters don't learn or change at all, and end the film as exactly who they were at the start. The video does not present this idea as a criticism, but rather cites the film as a very rare case where that sort of irreverent storytelling style actually works.)

Sequels make things a lot more difficult, in that the audience contradictorily wants more of the same...but different. If a sequel takes a character too far away from what the audience knows, then the audience might reject it. But, if the character stays too close to what they were in the previous film, then the sequel runs the risk of appearing stagnant and/or repetitive. 

It's a tricky tightrope to walk, especially in sequels where the character's arc and growth were already played out in the first film (as with ROBOCOP).

Where is the line drawn between character development/growth, and a character just being off-model?
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