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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 August 2017 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Every so often there is some discussion of whether or not it is appropriate for Spock to call our favorite communications officer "Miss Urura" rather than "Lt. Uhura" or just "Uhura".

I've used the phrase several times in STNV, and my doing so is based on Spock's usage on TOS. This morning I thought I would amuse myself by tracking down those uses, and discovered, much to my amusement, that Spock first calls her that in "The Man Trap". Which was the first broadcast episode, making "Miss Uhura" literally Spock's first spoken words in the series!

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Michael Casselman
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Posted: 18 August 2017 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Navy/military tradition. Even in the Army, I saw plenty of senior officers call junior offers (and even sometime enlisted personnel) Mister or Miss.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 August 2017 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Thing is, while we are used to serviceMEN calling each other "Mister", even after all these years there is resistance to "Miss".
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 18 August 2017 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

And, of course, in TWOK, Kirk and Spock both consistently use "Mister" when addressing Saavik.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 18 August 2017 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Thing is, while we are used to serviceMEN calling each other "Mister", even after all these years there is resistance to "Miss".

***

I've noticed that in police and military dramas.

There was a BBC show a few years ago called RED CAP. A red cap is a UK military police officer (British Army, the others, i.e. RAF Police, are called snowdrops due to a white cap). The show featured the Special Investigation Branch (SIB), the detective unit within the British Army.

It didn't run long. But there was a lot of "Mister Vicary" or "Mister Howard", but not sure that any of the female officers were referred to as "Miss".
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 18 August 2017 at 9:41pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

The obvious answer is to remove gender specific titles of mister or mistress, and stick to ranks. But of course, that wasn't what was done back in the 60s... even the future in the 60s.

I tells ya, the future ain't what it used to be. :)

For what my opinion is worth, I find Miss Uhura as acceptable as Mr. Sulu and Mr. Chekov. And Mr. Spock.
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 19 August 2017 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I wasn't that familiar with military jargon when I first saw TWOK. I thought addressing Saavik as "Mister" was a futuristic and/or Vulcan thing. 
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Luke Styer
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Posted: 21 August 2017 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

 Michael Casselman wrote:
Navy/military tradition. Even in the Army, I saw plenty of senior officers call junior offers (and even sometime enlisted personnel) Mister or Miss.

Stranger, though, are instances in which junior officers address Spock as "Mister Spock."
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David Miller
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Posted: 21 August 2017 at 8:32pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I bet Spock's colleagues were shocked how easy going and informal he is (for a Vulcan). "Doctor Spock is the name of my paternal forbear, Ensign. As there is no pressing logical reason for formality, Mister Spock will be sufficient." Then he snorted a line of cane sugar. 
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 10 November 2017 at 9:19pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I was 8 when I saw TWOK on its original release, yet the 'Mr. Saavik' references didn't register with me until I read the DC adaptation of 'ST III'.I also wondered if it was some Vulcan custom to avoid using 'female' titles.
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 11 November 2017 at 3:31pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

What about "Sir" being used to address women? I'm not as familiar with TOS, but I'm sure I recall an episode of TNG where a female ensign referred to Dr. Crusher as "Sir" (as in answering a question Crusher asked with "yes, Sir!"). 

Edited by Jabari Lamar on 11 November 2017 at 3:32pm
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 12 November 2017 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Traditions. These started when there were no female in the military, nor were there ever expected to be, and so male references were a matter of fact.

I only have personal feelings on this, not any experience or military knowledge, but I would think that gender appropriate forms of address would be the norm, as men and women are not the same. But I reckon answering "yes, sir" to a superior officer of either gender would be pardonable.

ITEM: Just to point out (that dead horse needs more beating), let's remember how Kirk addressed his senior staff...

Mr. Spock
Mr. Scott
Mr. Sulu
Mr. Chekov

I don't recall Kirk ever addressing Uhura as anything but "Lieutenant" or "Uhura", but I am not in the least discomfited by having her called Ms. Uhura. It would be consistent, to be certain.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 02 December 2017 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I can "hear" Kirk saying "Miss Uhura", but I can't pin it to particular episodes.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 02 December 2017 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Yeah, so do I, although I find myself wondering if he ever actually did. No specific bells go off in my head when I try to recall an episode where he said it. "Miss Uhura" was much more of a Spock thing. Kirk usually went with "Lieutentant", or just "Uhura".
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Brad Brickley
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Posted: 03 December 2017 at 2:55am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

When I was an enlisted soldier back in the mid 80's, I only remember Ma'am or Sir for officers or we addressed them by their rank. I seem to remember that among the officers they did the same and for us enlisted they would call us by our last names for the most part. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 December 2017 at 9:14am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

It's all kinda moot, of course, since this is "the future" and a combined service.
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