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Topic: Game of Thrones Season 7 ~ SPOILERS! Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

As we've done in the past, feel free to talk about this season without the use of inviso-text.  However, if you're a fan of the books and something there might be relevant re: speculation about upcoming episodes,  please use a spoiler warning (inviso-text would be best).  I know the series has diverged in significant ways from the novels, but there might still be events untold that would be spoilers if openly discussed.  
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Man, that cold open. I was wondering if I was seeing a flashback at first, but as soon as they started pouring wine, I knew it was Arya. 
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Best moments:

Arya dealing vengeance like a deck of cards!  "The North remembers....and Winter has come for the Freys!"  By the old gods and the new!  THAT was cool.

Lyanna Mormont flossing and bossing like a QUEEN!  I love her so much that I'm sure she will die in the worst possible way this season!

The Hound growing a conscious right before our eyes... 

Littlefinger scheming his ass off and he senses weakness in the Jon Snow/Sansa relationship.....

Dany feeling right at home on Dragonstone....

Euron Greyjoy: "Two good hands" comment...HYSTERICAL!    If his gift is what I think it will be, Cersei will wed him and bed him...and Jamie will kill another 'king'.

 



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Marc M. Woolman
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 4:05pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Nice to have the show back but even more
frustrating that with a shortened season
we get a filler episode.
The mother of dragons gets on a boat last
episode, this episode she gets off of it,
Arya kills Walder Frey last ep., This
episode she kills his family,Etc, etc.
The plot advanced half a centimeter from
the last episode of last year and there's
only 6 episodes left this season!

Edited by Marc M. Woolman on 17 July 2017 at 6:58pm
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I have a feeling the pace is about to pick up pretty damn quickly next week.
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 8:26pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Favorite bit of dialogue (along with the Hound's bit about ending up with a bunch of fire worshipers):

Sansa Stark: No need to seize the last word, Lord Baelish. I'll assume it was something clever.
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 8:29pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

The Hound growing a conscious right before our eyes... 

******

Martin (or the show's writers) has a knack for subverting villains. With Jaime Lannister and Clegane both becoming somewhat heroic after being two of the biggest villains on the show, one trying to kill a kid in the first episode and the other actually killing a kid later that season. He never redeemed Joffrey obviously, he was probably irredeemable, but redemption does seem to be one of the major themes.


Edited by Shane Matlock on 18 July 2017 at 2:23am
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 10:21pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I don't see redemption as a theme in any shape or form. Multi-faceted characters that can be not fully grokked at first sight, yes. Characters that are evil and then redeemed? No.

The Hound was never a full-on villain, despite doing some pretty awful stuff. Anyone that is a full-on villain, say the Mountain or Ramsay Bolton or Walder Frey, has not had some twist into an OK dude. And even with Walder Frey there is insight/justification into why they acted that way.

And as for the accusation elsewhere that it was an episode of filler.... Jeez, we got the entire House Frey wiped out before the opening credits.



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David Miller
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Yeah, after Arya massacred the Freys I figured the show had earned a mulligan for the rest of the hour. And there was plenty of good stuff, like the Hound performing the funeral, which evoked a scene from the A Feast For Crows (I think?) which suggested but did not confirm the Hound's survival from Book 3, as an anonymous gravedigger for the Sept.
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I disagree, Jaime Lannister's character arc has definitely had some redemptive qualities even if he wasn't ever really seeking redemption. And while it's true that neither Jaime nor Sandor were ever full on villains like Joffrey or Ramsay, they were definitely portrayed as such initially. 

Daenerys Targaryen's character arc has not just been about taking back the iron throne for her family but also doing it a way that redeems the family name from its recent history of the mad tyrant, by trying to be a good and fair queen. She isn't redeeming herself, but it's definitely redemption for the Targaryens if she doesn't wind up getting the throne and being corrupted by it, which judging by the rest of her actions she won't. If she gets the throne back that is. 


Edited by Shane Matlock on 17 July 2017 at 11:26pm
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 11:24pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

 Marc M. Woolman wrote:
Nice to have the show back but even more 
frustrating that with a shortened season 
we get a filler episode.

Couldn't disagree more if I tried.  I don't think this was a filler episode at all.  On the contrary, it was a fantastic way to start the new season.  I know opinions vary, but I honestly can't believe anyone would believe that this was just filler.
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 11:24pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

And another character trying to find redemption would be Theon Greyjoy. Game of Thrones is rife with all sorts of themes, but the redemptive one is definitely there. Power is probably the biggest theme. But there's betrayal, honor, family, etc. The show is pretty rich with themes.

Edited by Shane Matlock on 17 July 2017 at 11:25pm
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 11:27pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

If this episode was filler I was too distracted by all the witty dialogue and stunning visuals to notice.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 11:31pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

I fall in-between.  I don't think the series is all about redemption, but neither do I think there is not a single character trying to redeem themselves.  Theon is a perfect example and not the only one.  Is it the main theme?  No.  I think Daenerys understands that her father was really and truly mad given she saw those traits passed down to her brother, so I don't think she's "redeeming" the Targaryen name so much as she's after what she thinks was stolen from her, redemption be damned.  
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 11:39pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Power is the biggest theme obviously, but, like I said, the theme of redemption is definitely there too. The show is thematically rich and very morally ambiguous. The lines between good and evil are razor thin.

But the subversion of both villainy and heroism I find really fascinating about it.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 18 July 2017 at 1:09am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

 Shane Matlock wrote:
Power is the biggest theme obviously, but, like I said, the theme of redemption is definitely there too. The show is thematically rich and very morally ambiguous. The lines between good and evil are razor thin.

This.  The main, over-arching theme is power.  Who has it. Who can wield it most successfully.  Who can turn it from a disadvantage to an advantage.  Who thinks they have it only to find it pulled from under them. But that's not to say that power is the only theme of the series.  There are a ton of others, some relating to just a single character and their journey and others relating as a subset to the power they seek and/or avoid.  Redemption, for some, is definitely in the mix.
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 18 July 2017 at 2:16am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Oddly enough, a friend of mine just shared this link with me on Facebook when we were talking about the episode. It's a well written Onion AV article about Sandor Clegane's redemption..

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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 18 July 2017 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

I enjoyed the various scenes of the opener and getting us reacquainted with the series after a long hiatus was good. But there aren't enough episodes in a season.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 18 July 2017 at 11:30am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Did i miss something? How did Arya get her voice to
sound like Frey? Plus the life-like mask?
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 18 July 2017 at 11:42am | IP Logged | 20 post reply


 QUOTE:
Did i miss something?

Two seasons of Arya training with the Faceless Men in Braavos, apparently. :)

We know that creating the masks the Faceless Men use involves taking the faces from corpses. Arya killed Walder Frey, so I think we can assume where that mask came from. 


Edited by Michael Roberts on 18 July 2017 at 11:43am
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 18 July 2017 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Oh yes,it`s been SOOO long! But the voice?
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 18 July 2017 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

It's an ability the Faceless Men have, although I don't think it's clear if it's a skill they have to learn or part of the magic of the mask.
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 18 July 2017 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

 It's more magic than mask.  The Faceless Men are wizards of a sort.

Edited by David Allen Perrin on 18 July 2017 at 8:06pm
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 23 July 2017 at 8:12pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Someone's going to have to explain to me Theon Greyjoy's redemption storyline.
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