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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 31 July 2017 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

In GAME OF THRONES, if you see enemies everywhere, are you truly mad,  or observant?
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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 31 July 2017 at 8:26pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I wouldn't say that Tyrion has been making bad calls lately, it's just that he (and pretty much all of her enemies) has underestimated how clever Cersei can be when she isn't letting her emotions cloud her judgement.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 31 July 2017 at 10:18pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply


He was quite sane at the start. And was so ambitious about improving Westeros it was suggested he might have one day been called "Aerys the Wise" or "Aerys the Great". Over time he became more and more paranoid and then saw enemies everywhere. It just slid into chaos.
++++++++

Y'see, that's what I thought, but Peter Martin says not. Is it different in the books, maybe? Because I recall a mention in the show that Aerys was a sane and just ruler, up to a point. Which indicates that the same might potentially happen to Daenerys. 

As it is, her arrogance was in full swing, this episode, which again leads me to believe that she's not the one who's gonna end up on top. Seems like she needs to learn it's all about the journey, rather than the destination.
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 01 August 2017 at 2:09am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I'm starting to think we saw Arya last episode....

I get the feeling her failed reunion with Nymeria sent her heading back to King's Landing.....and back on the path of vengeance.

Did anyone else spot her?


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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 01 August 2017 at 2:28am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I'm starting to think we saw Arya last episode....  

I get the feeling her failed reunion with Nymeria sent her heading back to King's Landing.....and back on the path of vengeance.

-----

Arya can be seen in the previews for next week's episode. 
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 01 August 2017 at 3:33am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

And let's face facts... Arya could have been in the entire episode and we might not have spotted her! You want a long shot plot point? Arya is going to assassinate Cersei and take her place... and no one will be the wiser.
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 01 August 2017 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Which is why Arya is probably my favorite GOT character!  

With Lyanna "Lil' Boss" Mormont a close second.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 01 August 2017 at 9:37am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I think Arya is on her way North.  I don't think she's headed to or already in King's Landing...yet.
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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 01 August 2017 at 11:01am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

They didn't give any indication that Arya had changed her mind again and decided to head for King's Landing again, so as far as we know, she's still on her way home to Winterfell.

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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 01 August 2017 at 4:06pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Well... that's what is called a "surprise." :)

But certainly, it could be her target after homecoming. I mean, she could get into Westeros without anyone blinking... and then Walder Frey could have some company in Hell. That'd swing the balance in that war, I should think.
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Jozef Brandt
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Posted: 01 August 2017 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply


The Mad King was cruel at times, but only really got paranoid and crazy in the years leading up to Robert's Rebellion. First he was held captive by an upstart Lord during a rebellion, then his wife had a series of stillbirth's and miscarriages.  (It should be noted that his wife was his sister Rhaella, and they were forced into marriage because their farther got a prophecy that their line would produce the price who was promised).  His three children who lived were Rhaegar (eventually killed by Robert) Viserys, and Dany. 

The Targaryen's had a history of some crazy paranoid people, possibly linked to their inbreeding.  Viserys seemed to take after his father in the paranoid cruelty department. 

If you really want to look up detailed stuff, I recommend the asoiaf wiki.  It's pretty thorough. 





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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 02 August 2017 at 3:51am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Okay, I'm something of a pseudo-fan of GoT (my wife is the fanatic, bless her heart. :) A lot of this stuff sounds as if one had to read the books as a primer for enjoying the HBO series.

I haven't read the books, and they sound a little more complicated than I want to invest time in. If that means you think I'm not enjoying twenty-'leven and a half characters and storylines a lot, you would be on the nose.

Am I missing out on a lot by NOT reading the books? Because that means I'm gonna miss a lot... but that doesn't sound exactly fair. Then again, I don't see cotton candy or a pony ride around here...

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Joseph Greathouse
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Posted: 02 August 2017 at 6:45am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I haven't read the books, my wife has, and neither of us thinks I am missing out on a thing. 
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Joseph Greathouse
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Posted: 02 August 2017 at 6:50am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

"They didn't give any indication that Arya had changed her mind again and decided to head for King's Landing again, so as far as we know, she's still on her way home to Winterfell."

There could have been a bit of foreshadowing. When she saw her direwolf and tried to talk her into coming home, the wolf left and Arya whispered, "That's not you." That was a definite throwback to the first season when she was talking to Ned about being a princess, and Arya said, "That's not me." 

For all that she has been through, while the initial instinct may be to go home, that's not her. I could see that as a turning point to head south again and continue on her mission, which is her.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 02 August 2017 at 8:39am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

For all that she has been through, while the initial instinct may be to go home, that's not her. I could see that as a turning point to head south again and continue on her mission, which is her.

-------

Setting aside that the previews show exactly where Arya is next week, Arya is doing all this as revenge for her family. Turning her back on the remaining members of her family isn't her either. 
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 02 August 2017 at 8:40am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Did anyone think it odd that we got such a solid look at the 'random' servant that peeked in on Jamie and cerise while they were in Cersei's bedroom?

I'm laying odds that's Arya...


Edited by David Allen Perrin on 02 August 2017 at 8:42am
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 02 August 2017 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Did anyone think it odd that we got such a solid look at the 'random' servant that peeked in on Jamie and cerise while they were in Cersei's bedroom?

-----

Didn't think it was odd at all. The point of that scene was to underline how much power Cersei now held that she can be totally brazen about her incestuous relationship with Jaime.
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 02 August 2017 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Bernadette has appeared on the show many times.....and Cersei (and we viewers) 'trust' her to just be the faithful servant.  Yes, we have seen the servant before.  She was Sansa's handmaiden way back when.  

But that look at her in the doorway felt 'different'.  It was just a beat longer than was needed for her character.
 

Dude...that is totally Arya!
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 02 August 2017 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Setting aside the fact that Arya will be at Winterfell, I don't think she'd murder a servant girl, even Cersei's. We've seen her hold off on killing the Frey women, and even some Lannister soldiers when she realized that they were just regular folk caught up fighting in other people's wars. Turning Cersei's servant into a skin mask ignores all of Arya's development this season. 
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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 02 August 2017 at 8:39pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I'd put money on that NOT being Arya. You're just letting your desire to see her kill Cersei cloud your judgement. One could say that you're turning into the Mad King and seeing enemies everywhere ;)
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Jozef Brandt
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Posted: 05 August 2017 at 12:22am | IP Logged | 21 post reply


Yeah, Arya is going to be in Winterfell.  Cersei is probably going to survive until the last season unfortunately.  Whenever the prophecy comes true.  "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you" Valonqar is high Valyrian for "Little Brother" apparently, so there is a lot of speculation that it's Tyrion or Jamie. 

The first few seasons the Showrunners put in a lot of "book" easter eggs, stuff that was obvious if you'd read the books, but they used them less and less, and now the writers are excising huge swaths of story to finish things up in their timetable.  On one hand we are getting to the meat of the story faster, on the other hand you are missing out on a lot of depth, history, and nuance. 
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 05 August 2017 at 1:36am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Listen, it only makes sense that the White Walkers are dealt with before Cersei.  She's the emotional core, the evil of this series, the Darth Vader if you will.  They have to battle and defeat the Winter before they get rid of the Mad Queen. If it were the other way 'round it would be an unsatisfying series.  It has to end with her death, not kill her in Season 7 with Season 8 waiting in the wings.  Arya is on her way to Winterfell.  She's not imbeded in King's Landing having already killed Cersei's servant just to take her face.  I mean, c'mon.  Seriously.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 05 August 2017 at 1:46am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

 Jozef Brandt wrote:
On one hand we are getting to the meat of the story faster, on the other hand you are missing out on a lot of depth, history, and nuance.  

I talked to a friend of mine, a HUGE GOT fan from way back. Read all the books long before there was ever a whisper of a TV series.  Her reaction?  No qualms.  She said that the last couple of books were incredibly dense and absolutely boring, focusing on everything from the meticulous attention to attire to the food they ate to how the dew rested on a flower.  She said the history that was given about characters was overlong and ultimately unnecessary to the overall story.  

Listen, I get it.  I think the HARRY POTTER books are far better than the movies because the movies leave out so much nuance and character. But at the end of the day, something has to give.  You've got the books so they can't take that from you, but for a fan of the HBO series like me?  I don't notice it and, in fact, think it's a nuanced, intimate, deep portrayal of the characters I was introduced to in Season 1.  
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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 05 August 2017 at 8:43pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

If the reports regarding this weeks episode turn out to be true, it's going to be a spectacular episode and just might answer a question we've been discussing of late.


As for the books vs. show, I fall on the side of the show as being better. The show generates an emotional connection to the material that is absent in the books and the tighter focus eliminates some of the extraneous material that Martin has padded some of the books (the last two in particular) with. While book purists may not like the streamlining of the material, it allows for a more focused and thrilling ride.
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David Miller
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Posted: 05 August 2017 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I like the show better, too. In general, I tend to favor movie adaptations to the original books. (GoT is effectively a movie for my purposes.)

I think the show could have been better if it had edited the book plots even more ruthlessly -- a single-season SoS. Also, I'd have liked if the show wandered farther afield: the Red Wedding might have had even more impact if Robb had been the show's main character instead of King Dead Meat Walking.

I read the books because I knew the HBO series was coming. I like them, but I could definitely see the point of a very intelligent friend of mine who found the books' actual writing to be agonizingly terrible. I read the Wild Cards books back in the day, and they had a similar trajectory of starting with compelling characters and propulsive plots before meandering off into who-gives-a-fuck-ville.
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