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Topic: Why Star Wars should have stopped at just one film (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 09 June 2017 at 5:05am | IP Logged | 1  

The Jar Jar scene mentioned by Aleksander is already out. It is in the third Aftermath book. And it is actually a pretty poignant scene as he meets a kid that no one else like either. The two strike a bond and become friends.

Bitter sweet scene. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 June 2017 at 5:42am | IP Logged | 2  

I can see where Jar Jar could work in a book. Most of the annoying elements would be gone.
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Aleksandar Petrovic
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Posted: 09 June 2017 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 3  

Greg, I consider Frank Herbert's Dune to be the paragon of science fiction (unfortunately it was never properly visualized on screen, or in any other medium). 

I am not sure what George Lucas had in his mind versus what actually came out as the final product, but I certainly wish that Star Wars was more Dune-like on all fronts.   
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Aleksandar Petrovic
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 10:54am | IP Logged | 4  

I wish to return to my last message, because I feel that I did not explain things properly. 

I definitely enjoy droids, bounty hunters and swashbuckling elements in Star Wars, but when it comes to Jedi and Sith, characters definitely lack proper depth for what they are supposed to represent. This is what I meant by 'being more Dune-like'. 

In Dune series you really get to see how each character's mind's eye perceives the universe, both through internal monologues (difficult to do properly on film) and regular dialogues. 

Here is an example of a dialogue from God Emperor of Dune:

"Most civilisation is based on cowardice. It's so easy to civilize by teaching cowardice. You water down the standards which would lead to bravery. You restrain the will. You regulate the appetites. You fence in the horizons. You make a law for every movement. You deny the existence of chaos. You teach even the children to breathe slowly. You tame."

With this kind of internal and external dialogues you really feel who the characters are, you get a genuine sense what they represent, how they think, what they might do. I wish there was this type of character depth for Palpatine - or for Anakin-Vader-Anakin, or for Obi Wan...    
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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 11:08am | IP Logged | 5  

"Most civilisation is based on cowardice. It's so easy to civilize by teaching cowardice. You water down the standards which would lead to bravery. You restrain the will. You regulate the appetites. You fence in the horizons. You make a law for every movement. You deny the existence of chaos. You teach even the children to breathe slowly. You tame."

That quote doesn't have much meaning without the context of who said it and why.

I would argue that civilization is based on selfishness, not cowardice. Strength in numbers. The territorial imperative.

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Aleksandar Petrovic
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 6  

I haven't made up my mind yet what is behind civilisation - "sleep on it, I must" (I literally opened the book at random to pick up a line of dialogue) - but I am entirely convinced that fear of death is the root cause of all religion. 
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 13 June 2017 at 11:30am | IP Logged | 7  

With sequels, many people dislike the continued story. Rocky comes to my mind. Many who loved the original think the sequels tainted it, while other can't wait to see the next installment.

ROCKY is one of those movies that didn't need a sequel...on the other hand, art imitating life, who wouldn't want to see a rematch between Rocky and Apollo after that first fight??

That justifies ROCKY II. But things kinda go off the rails after that. In production, each movie must have seemed like it was going to be the last. In the first, Rocky is 30 years old, out of shape, his knees are shot. He has no real boxing style and rudimentary skills and not a lot of speed. His chief assets are a hard head and the ability to punch powerfully. And he's a southpaw, which throws most right-handed boxers off.

After the first fight with Apollo, he was told continued fighting (especially blows to the head) could lead to permanent blindness due to a detached retina. A major plot point in II, but forgotten by ROCKY III, where his strategy to beat Clubber Land was to let him land repeated blows to his head so he'd tire himself out. After Apollo bothered to teach him to actually box.

By ROCKY IV, this guy who could barely make it up the Philadelphia Museum of Art's steps after jogging thru the city is literally running up the side of a mountain...ten years later.

And while still not blind, he was diagnosed with brain damage after the fight with Drago. Also forgotten when he was given a clean bill of health for his fight in ROCKY BALBOA. No brain damage. No bad eye(s). His knees were shot, though. Running up mountains in mid-life might do that to someone.

Don't get me wrong, I love the franchise* (except ROCKY V, pee-yew!**). But with all the heights he climbed (again, literal, in at least one case) in the sequels, it makes one think he wasn't quite as run down as one would be led to believe in the first film. Or as damaged in others.

*Unlike, say, THE MATRIX, where I only acknowledge the first film and pretend the sequels don't exist. I feel similarly about STAR WARS.

**I generally ignore this one. You can jump from ROCKY IV straight to ROCKY BALBOA without missing anything.


Edited by Brian Rhodes on 13 June 2017 at 5:09pm
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Aleksandar Petrovic
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Posted: 15 June 2017 at 4:59pm | IP Logged | 8  

I have the greatest respect for one-shots (Interstellar, Inception), because creating something new and then moving on is the hardest thing to do.

But I also like anthological approach in science fiction. I first started thinking about this when I saw Soldier with Kurt Russell back in 1998. The movie was a flop, but it had this interesting idea about it (which unfortunately could not be made official) that the story is happening in the Blade Runner movie universe, although in a completely different corner of it. In other words, a movie which is neither a sequel or a prequel.    

If an interesting fictional universe is created by the initial movie, I am not against creating additional stories in it in this fashion, to explore it further (this way, the fictional universe itself becomes the 'star' of the show). 

Think about how many untold stories could be out there in, for example, Mad Max: Fury Road universe, that could be told without ever (re)visiting any familiar locations or characters.  

The same goes for Star Wars of course, or for Star Trek, and many others. 
  


Edited by Aleksandar Petrovic on 15 June 2017 at 10:19pm
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 16 June 2017 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | 9  

What you described Aleksandar Petrovic, one movie possibly existing in another movie's timeline reminded me of a timeline which I made a couple of years ago in which I combined some of my favorite 80s and 90s science fiction movies that I felt could co exist within the same history (with some additional plot points here and there that I took from canceled scripts and fan theories)

Movies that I had included were the Alien movies (Alien, Aliens, Alien 3), Terminator (Terminator 1 and 2), Robocop 1, Predator 1 and 2, Total Recall, Blade Runner, Outland, etc.

It unfortunately has nothing to do with Star Wars so I can not post it here.


Edited by Marten van Wier on 17 June 2017 at 5:01am
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Aleksandar Petrovic
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Posted: 16 June 2017 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 10  

I don't wish to take the topic off rails, but one of the more amusing fan theories I heard is that Predator and Terminator occur in the same fictional universe, and that Skynet settles on Major Alan "Dutch" Schaefer (Arnold Schwarzenegger) as the original template for T-800. 

Those few explanatory minutes would be fun to see on the screen for sure.   
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 20 June 2017 at 7:19am | IP Logged | 11  

I've seen PREDATOR many times (once just last week!), and up until reading this, I don't think I realized Dutch wasn't the character's actual last name (is it ever mentioned in the film, or even the credits?).

In retrospect, "Dutch" as a nickname makes perfect sense...but as a surname it would have been a little too on-the-nose.


Edited by Brian Rhodes on 20 June 2017 at 7:22am
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Aleksandar Petrovic
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Posted: 20 June 2017 at 10:20am | IP Logged | 12  

Official film novelisation of Predator, publisher's summary:

"Seven men. War was their profession, death an occupational hazard. But this time, they weren't fighting a war. They were fighting something far more deadly...

One by one, it stalked them. And one by one, they died, each death more horrifying than the last.

Only one man is left. Major Alan Schaefer. Now, in the heart of the jungle, he must face the most terrifying creature ever to land on Earth. One on one..."
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Aleksandar Petrovic
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Posted: 22 June 2017 at 10:02am | IP Logged | 13  

I came across something interesting this morning that helps illustrate an earlier point in the discussion - how profits from Star Wars toys vastly outnumber anything that movies can generate. The Licensing Industry Merchandisers Association attributed the $118 billion made in 2016 movie/entertainment global retail toy revenue to the year-round sale of Star Wars product for The Force Awakens and Rogue One. I could not find the exact numbers for these two movie streams, but I image they represent a large chunk of the overall figure.
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Paul Kimball
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Posted: 07 July 2017 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | 14  

I'm fine with the powers that be making as many star wars films as possible,
none detract for me from my enjoyment of the original and I've enjoyed a
few of the later films(Empire and Rogue One)
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 11 July 2017 at 8:38am | IP Logged | 15  

is it ever mentioned in the film, or even the credits?
------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------
Official film novelisation of Predator, publisher's summary:

So, that's a "no".

A nice piece of trivia, though.


Edited by Brian Rhodes on 11 July 2017 at 8:39am
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 11 July 2017 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 16  

Aleksandar Petrovic

Terminator 3 has an extras scene that shows us who the T-800 was based on. (paste into your browser) It's pretty cute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kayFrIR-Qfw
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Aleksandar Petrovic
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Posted: 12 July 2017 at 10:15am | IP Logged | 17  

Thanks Emery, I remember that one from the home edition. Very funny indeed, especially the voice thing. 

Skynet's "harvesting" of Dutch in the immediate follow-up to the Judgment Day (which someone like himself could have survived) would've been some truly spectacular action, though.

Brian, it is very likely that the novelization author used the film script (it is an official tie-in product). 
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