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Wil Overton
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Posted: 22 April 2017 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

So, apparently Fox just announced this for 2018.

As much as I went in not expecting anything much I actually found myself enjoying Apocalypse. This, however, is a much tougher call. I mean, they're messing with my some of my most treasured comics nostalgia here.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 22 April 2017 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I thought they did this in the 3rd movie (which I have not seen).
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Rich Marzullo
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Posted: 22 April 2017 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

They did it badly. I'm expecting they'll do it even worse this time around. 
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 22 April 2017 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I don't know. LAST STAND set the bar extremely low...

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 22 April 2017 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

It's been 11 years since the last time they did it badly. In today's reboot-happy climate, I'm amazed we haven't already had two more failed attempts at redoing that story, during that decade.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 22 April 2017 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Zzzzzzz
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Bill Mimbu
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Posted: 22 April 2017 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Since the Fox cinematic universe appears to be lacking any established extraterrestrial races to blow up, does this mean Dark Phoenix just eats our Sun and puts the franchise out of misery?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 22 April 2017 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

The Dark Phoenix "saga" is so deeply immersed in the history of Marvel and the X-Men it would be literally impossible to bring it to the screen in anything but name only -- unless they're planning something considerably more than a two hour movie!
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 22 April 2017 at 9:31pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Brian Miller, you haven't missed much if you've not watched the third film. In fact, its been kicked out of continuity, since subsequent films completely ignored a significant event that happened in it. 
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 23 April 2017 at 2:56am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

LAST STAND buried the bar.

X-Men: Dark Phoenix is the backhoe that will help us find it and go deeper still.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 23 April 2017 at 7:35am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Ah, because rather than try something NEW, it's easier to poach from existing X-Men stories. And the more successful the story, the better the film will do, right?

In "Last Stand", I saw a Phoenix who was probably in Magneto's league - maybe a bit more powerful. But not in the Silver Surfer/Thor realm of power, and one who was a big challenge - but not end of the universe level, I think.

The first two X-Men movies at least had original stories. Not entirely unacceptable. But since, it seems to be, "Which X-Men story can we bring to screen?"

Crap, if they want to do that, use the original X-Men and do the Living Pharaoh/Monolith story. Oh, wait... no Wolverine or Storm or Magneto. Nope, THAT'S out.

Dreck.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 23 April 2017 at 7:45am | IP Logged | 12 post reply


The Dark Phoenix Saga is hallowed ground as far as I'm concerned. It was my introduction to The Uncanny X-Men comics. As well as introducing me to the work of John Byrne. I will not suffer no desecration upon this important part of my childhood.

I'm tempted to say I refuse to have anything to do with a Fox controlled adaptation. But I know my curiosity will get the better of me. So I'll cautiously be dipping my toe into the cold waters.


Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 23 April 2017 at 10:42am
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 23 April 2017 at 9:09am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

In "Last Stand", I saw a Phoenix who was probably in Magneto's league - maybe a bit more powerful. But not in the Silver Surfer/Thor realm of power, and one who was a big challenge - but not end of the universe level, I think.
+++++++++

There's a certain irony, here. While the first two X-MEN movies largely opened the door and set the tone for the superhero movie explosion of the early 2000s, the franchise is now lagging far behind, and cowers in the shadow of the Marvel Studios films, which have embraced colorful costumes and full-on cosmic storylines. As I observed when DAYS OF FUTURE PAST came out, it seemed like Bryan Singer was trying to make an X-Men movie as if it was still the year 2000.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if this next attempt at butchering the Phoenix storyline still doesn't embrace its cosmic roots.
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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 23 April 2017 at 9:59am | IP Logged | 14 post reply


This version will practically write itself, by Hollywood and Fox/X-MEN universe standards:

-Add the word "DARK" to the title

-Make Jean Grey the most powerful mutant ever, show a lot of fire, destruction and death

-Throw any prior continuity out the window


Voila!  At least $150 million at the box office, and most likely a bigger hit than APOCALYPSE.  What could go wrong?





Edited by Shaun Barry on 23 April 2017 at 11:17am
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Larry Morris
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Posted: 23 April 2017 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

I suppose the bright side is they have nowhere else to go but up from the first try.  I'm kind of surprised they wouldn't wait another movie to try.  THey haven't really even established the Scott/Jean relationship in the reboot.  IMO, pretty central to the story if you are staying true to the comics version.  Zack Penn didn't feel it was essential 12 years ago, maybe they feel the same way now,

As I said, though, pretty much nowhere to go but up from the last time.
Then again, this is the company that gave us FF in 2015.  Maybe they can do worse.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 23 April 2017 at 7:12pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

The Dark Phoenix Saga worked because of Jean's history in the X-Men and the slow build from Phoenix to Dark Phoenix. There's no way they can portray all the key parts of the storyline in a 2 hour movie.

I've mentioned that the BEST storylines of the X-MEN could possibly be done well in a cable TV series format. Too bad we can't get a HBO series starting with Xavier and his first class then moving onto the "all-new" team by the end of season two. That season would build to the Dark Phoenix saga. Gives us viewers plenty of time to invest in the characters from all angles.

"Eat your heart out", Game Of Thrones! :)

-C!
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 12:45am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

I don`t see how it can work without the slow build that
J.B. and Chris Claremont set up,plus without the
Cyclops/Wolverine/Jean relationship being in place,you
lose a lot of emotional heft.Two hours can do the story
no justice at all.The nuances of Mastermind messing with
Jean`s head,the Shi`Ar,Lilandra and her relationship
with Xavier etc all need to be in place.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

I don`t see how it can work without the slow build that J.B. and Chris Claremont set up,plus without the Cyclops/Wolverine/Jean relationship being in place,you lose a lot of emotional heft.Two hours can do the story no justice at all.The nuances of Mastermind messing with Jean`s head,the Shi`Ar,Lilandra and her relationship with Xavier etc all need to be in place.

Some of those elements can be replaced. When Roger Stern was writing the novelization of the Death of Superman, he complained that there were so many characters he had to explain to a potentially civilian audience. All those other superheroes, for instance. I told him he should drop them, and in place of them, to demonstrate the power of Doomsday, substitute the armed forces of various nations. Have the bad guy wipe out the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines and the message will be sent!

In the case of Dark Phoenix, while there is much of Jean Gray's backstory that it vital to the evolution of the character, once she is "turned" it would be easy enough to "edit out" things like Lilandra and the rest of the Shi'ar. Phoenix doesn't need to blow up a planet, for instance. She could demonstrate her evil by decimating an Earthly city.

(I did not do that in the original story, as there would have been too many ongoing repercussions. Curiously, after I departed, Chris would have Magneto destroy an entire Russian city ---- and then go on to become a teacher at the School!! Rather like finding Joseph Mengela teaching at Yale.)*

_________________

* Or Werner von Braun working for NASA. Hmmmmm..........

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

While the countless changes that have been made from comicbook to screen have over the decades(!) now hardly ever failed to turn my stomach, it may just be that adapting Dark Phoenix without the Shi'ar rigmarole could in a way correct what -- in my opinion -- never should have been "in" the X-Men in the first place. 

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John Byrne
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

While the countless changes that have been made from comicbook to screen have over the decades(!) now hardly ever failed to turn my stomach, it may just be that adapting Dark Phoenix without the Shi'ar rigmarole could in a way correct what -- in my opinion -- never should have been "in" the X-Men in the first place.

One of my ongoing tasks on X-MEN was reminding Chris that it was a "specialty" book, and really should not be dealing with aliens, or magic, or vampires, or, bottom line, anything that wasn't MUTANTS.

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 10:24am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Ugh... sheesh... vampires... aliens!

I gladly aver that Mr. Claremont could and did write some passages in a score of issues as great as anything I'd ever read, but... I never ever could figure out why he didn't want to simply do X-Men stories. Granted that he had Dave Cockrum both pre-and-post JB, and Mr. Cockrum could whip up better aliens than almost anybody else, but then -- just go off and work on another comicbook, please.

Cyclops' dad is alive and... a space pirate?!

NO!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 10:37am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Cyclops' dad is alive and... a space pirate?!

NO!

Chris does not like "ordinary" characters. Kitty Pryde did not make it on my list of my own favorites because she was tainted right out of the gate, when my "oridinary" (except for those pesky powers) teenage girl was turned by Chris into a "genius." A genius is not "ordinary." A genius has already had experience in being "different."

Same with Scott's dad. Christopher (!?!) Summers was supposed to be so very ordinary that he had not even rated a mention before. Suddenly, out of nowhere, he's flying a refitted DeHavilland Mosquito and getting kidnapped by aliens. What the ever-lovin' f**k???

But, again, as I have said so many times, apparently Chris knew what he was doing. It was after I left that the book took off.

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Brian Skelley
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

 John Byrne wrote:
my "oridinary" (except for those pesky powers) teenage girl was turned by Chris into a "genius.


I never really saw her as a genius. She was very smart, but it still felt with the area of normal. I guess my standards are a bit off with Mr. Fantastic and Stark running around though.

As for Scott's dad, I didn't really care for the character. It didn't really bother me much that he was a space pirate. I was young though. A few years later on when suddenly everything seemed connected to the Summers clan, now that bothered the hell out of me. The fact that everyone was connected to Scott still seems stupid, and that somehow got worse after Claremont left the book. I remember they made a third brother that somehow everyone just forgot about.. only he was so awesome he took over a galaxy or some such stupidity.. Now that I think of it, Christopher Summers being a space pirate makes total sense. Those awesome genes had to have come from somewhere and I don't think we've ever heard about Scott's Grandparents..

(somewhere a writer is now starting what will be the untold stories about Wolverine creating the X-Men with Scott's great grandfather to save Professor X while he's still in the womb.. which is how Xavier got the idea in the first place..)
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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 6:40pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

I never really saw [Kitty] as a genius.

Take that up with Chris. He's the one who CALLED HER A GENIUS IN THE BOOK.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 8:17pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

The Dark Phoenix Saga is hallowed ground as far as I'm concerned. It was my introduction to The Uncanny X-Men comics. As well as introducing me to the work of John Byrne. I will not suffer no desecration upon this important part of my childhood.

I'm tempted to say I refuse to have anything to do with a Fox controlled adaptation. But I know my curiosity will get the better of me. So I'll cautiously be dipping my toe into the cold waters.

Once again, Hollywood wins. Their interest is solely in the number of dollars, not the reason they were spent.

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