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Topic: X-Men: Dark Phoenix - SPOILERS begin Pg 7 Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 06 June 2019 at 3:41pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply


Zero interest!



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Roberto Melendrez
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Posted: 06 June 2019 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Hard pass for me.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 06 June 2019 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Why would I ever need to see it? I got those comics again for the third time not long ago.
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 07 June 2019 at 4:01am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Well, here's one review that told me what I expected to be told.

So glad the Fox X-Men Franchise is over. (Oh wait, "New Mutants," if that ever even appears.)
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 June 2019 at 6:50am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Amused to note Halston Sage has a cameo as Dazzler.
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 07 June 2019 at 7:15am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Just came back from seeing it. In my defence, there is not much to do in Macau other than go to movies and gamble so I go see everything.

Frustrating movie. The writing was terrible and it had almost nothing to do with its namesake but like all the X-Men movies, there are tastes of what could be great. So frustrating.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 07 June 2019 at 8:47am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

You can’t just throw a two-hour movie out there with recast versions of the characters (who have appeared in, like, two prior movies), and expect it to have anywhere near the same impact.
--------------------------------------------------------
This was, I thought, the one big flaw in Winter Soldier.  Cap finding out that Bucky was somehow still alive in the comics, for better or worse, made a huge impact.  In the movies, he'd been gone for about five minutes.

The second group of X-Men movies have had some great elements (Fassbender's Magneto is great).  But most of the characters in whom they've invested in time and care in their relationships over the past three films, chiefly Xavier, Magneto, Mystique, Beast, Quicksilver, Wolverine are either not in this one, or get sidelined in favor of focusing on a character who was just introduced in the mediocre Apocalypse film to whom we have no attachment.

I enjoyed Days of Future Past the most out of all of these Fox X-Men films despite it bearing little in common with its comics namesake for precisely this reason.  It managed to marshal all of the character goodwill and interest and relationships from all of the previous films and bring them together into one story.  So I was actually invested.
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Jason G. Michalski
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Posted: 07 June 2019 at 8:49am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I told myself that I would see this in the theater since I've seen all of them in the theater since X1, but I'm just going to wait to rent this on Amazon and go see Godzilla instead. 
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Vishwas Aragam
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Posted: 07 June 2019 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Can we get a spoiler tag on the thread title? I wish I hadn’t read some
things I read here.
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Tim O Neill
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Posted: 07 June 2019 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply


Thanks, Vishwas - I have added the spoiler alert to the thread title.

Feel free to discuss story points as we are now open for 

SPOILERS

from this point forward






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Jason Scott
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Posted: 07 June 2019 at 10:00pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

"I told myself that I would see this in the theater since I've seen all of them in the theater since X1, but I'm just going to wait to rent this on Amazon and go see Godzilla instead."
------------------------------------------------

It's much better than Godzilla. 

In fact it wasn't half bad. They finally gave Cyclops some stuff to do in this movie. (Though I wish it was James Marsden still playing him) and Sophie Turner certainly gets a lot more dialogue than poor Famke Jansen did in X3. Fassbender's also on top form once again and MacAvoy's giving it his all. Kinberg's also a much better director on the action sequences than Singer ever was. (Admittedly not a high bar.)

It is hurt though by not being able to use the Hellfire Club (since they were used up in First Class). Plus the villains, though surprisingly formidable, aren't as varied as the Imperial Guard were in the books.

But they do good with what they have. It's certainly much better than Apocalypse and I even slightly prefer it to Days of Future past. Which I thought was overrated at the time, probably because everybody was just glad it reversed the mistakes of X3! i.e Giving a happy ending of bringing back Xavier, Cyclops and Jean. (Or at least until Logan inadvertently ruined that. :( )

So yeah, I'm glad they had a relatively decent film to end on. Not perfect, but better than the reviews would suggest.


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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 08 June 2019 at 10:53am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

It is hurt though by not being able to use the Hellfire Club (since they were used up in First Class).
*****
"Used up"??

A smart writer could've used Jason Wyngarde (Mastermind) as the new leader of the Hellfire Club and focused on how he manipulates Jean into becoming the Black Queen of his new Hellfire Club... which leads into her becoming Dark Phoenix. If only these egomaniacs had any respect for the source material. 

I hope Marvel Studios puts a proper X-Men franchise together in a few years.

-C!


Edited by Charles Valderrama on 08 June 2019 at 10:55am
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Jason Scott
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Posted: 08 June 2019 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Yeah, used up. Shaw and Emma whom were two massive parts of the Hellfire Club storylines, are dead in this continuity. And Jason Wyngarde wasn't exactly a strong leader type. More a petty slimeball, who on his own wouldn't have been that much of a threat. Especially against a team with telepaths. It's very telling that both Shaw and Emma have been in the comics much more than Mastermind since then.

And please, less of the shrilling for Marvel studios. If they really were all that, they wouldn't have made such a mess of Homecoming. Whose Peter and supporting cast bear very little resemblance at all to their comic counterparts. 


Edited by Jason Scott on 08 June 2019 at 1:22pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 08 June 2019 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

And Jason Wyngarde wasn't exactly a strong leader type. More a petty slimeball, who on his own wouldn't have been that much of a threat.

•••

Because, as we know, these Director’s Visions have all been SO faithful to character portrayals in the source material.

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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 09 June 2019 at 10:40am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Shaw and Emma whom were two massive parts of the Hellfire Club...

*****
They couldn't break the X-Men like they did without Jason Wyngarde... and for the sake of story I think Mastermind* being head of a new Hellfire Club (As JB stated, these characters often deviate from the source material.) would've served the story better than whatever Kinberg came up with to feed his ego.

-C!

* Mastermind has been around since day one. That Shaw & Emma have been in the comics more than Mastermind in recent years is irrelevant to my suggestion.


Edited by Charles Valderrama on 09 June 2019 at 10:49am
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Tim O Neill
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Posted: 09 June 2019 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply



Great article from Tracy Brown in the Los Angeles Times, pointing out that recent adaptations don't do justice to the source material.  I think she hits that nail on the head:



... and how cool is it to see the original run referred to as "beloved" in the headline?  I'm a Los Angeles Times subscriber, so that was a great headline to see today!


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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 09 June 2019 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Great to read that! I rank the L.A. Times quite highly, alongside the N.Y. Times and Washington Post.

Is there something in the Hollywood mentality that doesn't make anyone think first of making a movie like this crediting Chris Claremont & John Byrne (as well as Lee/Kirby/Wein/Cockrum as earlier creators)? It seems like just as with some of the old rank of editors in comics they don't want to deal fairly and directly sometimes with actual creators (you know, things like denying Dave Cockrum some of his artwork back when he first did Legion Of Super-Heroes while willing to throw it out or give it away to a kid doing an office tour). It's almost like a divide and conquer theme to keep power at a certain level and away from another. I've seen artists squabbling over who most deserves to work on some creation or other to the point where it's very strange and ugly, it made me sick basically, and you didn't see the respect for the originators as central... so it's not like the people at that level can't be just as negative. I guess when something has been absent as much as the kind of respect I think a lot of here have for creators, including Mr. Byrne himself who is still managing to keep the fan flame alive and loves being in the presence of the original artwork of those he admires, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that the poison runs deep into a substantial enough number of the supposed biggest fans and some fans turned pro. Stan Lee had Jack Kirby return to Captain America in the '70s and it just seemed like, of course... why would these movie makers think of involving or honoring the people who made the specific works they are at best transferring to another medium? Instead they seem sometimes ashamed of the source material if I may be so bold as to say so, want to bury that they are really just the latest collaborators on a goal you would think all would share. If Harper Lee can be involved in the film version of To Kill Mockingbird why can't say Denny O'Neil or Steve Englehart be involved in a Batman movie, or say Don McGregor in a Black Panther? Who among us wouldn't want their input if at all possible?


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Brian Hague
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Posted: 09 June 2019 at 5:16pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

For the most part, Hollywood doesn't give two ****'s for the writers it does employ. Why would it care about those it doesn't?

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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 June 2019 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

AHHRRGH!

Written by Chris Claremont

Art by John Byrne

Really??

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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 10 June 2019 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Looks like Fox's decision to let Simon Kinberg, the guy who wrote the worst X-Men movie to date, The Last Stand, which adapted the same material and very poorly at that, not only adapt the same story again but direct this time has done exactly what everyone thought it would do, and tanked with the critics, fans, and box office. Estimates are that it will lose over 100 million dollars and has the worst box office of any X-Men movie to date. It's a real shame that they didn't at least let someone else have a go at adapting one of X-Men and comic's greatest stories ever. Not sure it would've turned out much better but we'd already seen the results of letting Kinberg write it. Does Hollywood never learn from its mistakes?
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Mal Gardiner
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Posted: 11 June 2019 at 1:38am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

It was a pretty good précis, right up to the botched credits page at the end...
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Jozef Brandt
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Posted: 12 June 2019 at 1:52am | IP Logged | 22 post reply


You'd think the official YouTube channel for Marvel Entertainment could open a flap and read a credit in a comic.  (Heck, they even say it's available in their digital archive).  Yikes.
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Jonathan A. Dowdell
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Posted: 12 June 2019 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

I may be late to this thread. Lots of problems with this movie but to me the biggest one is they do nothing to make you care about these characters. The actors and the simplistic story don't help but the movie was absent any feeling. You don't care about the heroes, the villains are one dimensional, and the ending gives you nothing emotionally. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 June 2019 at 11:08am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

DARK PHOENIX messes up DOFP

Well, since they’ in the WRONG ORDER I guess that’s inevitable, right?

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 13 June 2019 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

What kind of iron gut you must have, JB, to constantly witness your work butchered and celebrated at the same time?!
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