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Ted Pugliese Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 December 2005 Location: United States Posts: 7985
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Posted: 23 April 2017 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | 1
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Just another reason I do not buy new comics anymore. Sad.
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Joe Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6666
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Posted: 23 April 2017 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | 2
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Another reason I feel the artist is more important than the writer: If they get a smokeshow art team to produce this I'll still buy it for the beautiful drawings.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 1:44am | IP Logged | 3
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I don't think I would, Joe. I did buy an ancillary issue of Civil War years ago just because it was drawn by Howard Chaykin, but they can't get Chaykin to draw the whole series. I'm trying to think who they could get to "stunt" certain issues and drag me into buying those individually... Chaykin? P. Craig Russell? Alan Davis, maybe, maybe not... But whatever the allure of those individual issues, there's no way I'd buy the whole mess.
Even if they got someone of that level to do the entire thing, I still think I'd contain myself to an issue or two, tops. A little goes a long way sometimes, and the good still wouldn't outweigh the bad in this instance. At bottom, its still a story I don't want to read, and I don't care how pretty they make it.
Edited by Brian Hague on 24 April 2017 at 1:45am
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 7:03am | IP Logged | 4
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We seen Marvel attempt U-turns before (Heroes Reborn, Age of Heroes). And for all we know, this time they may actually mean to recapture the original spirit of the great Marvel stories and characters. But the attempt will be either half-hearted, or will fail. After so many years of following a style and vision defined by Quesada and Bendis, the editors and writers probably just don't know how to do anything else. They'll go back to deconstructing heroes ASAP. More importantly, there may not be any fans of the good old stuff reading and buying Marvel comics anymore. We've all been chased away years ago (it's certainly been more than a decade since I've been a Marvel reader). And in recent years they've actually dismantled their own franchises like the X-Men and FF. Out of spite of the traditional stories and characters, in love with their own voice, they've destroyed their own market.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 24 April 2017 at 7:09am
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 7:16am | IP Logged | 5
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To add: it's not too late for Marvel to get a formerly rabid Marvel fan like me buying their books again. But it's going to take years of steady, impressive effort to convince me. A one-off "event" or publishing initiative is hardly going to do it.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133318
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 7:33am | IP Logged | 6
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When did the "events" begin to take over? There are two instances that spring to mind immediately as likely first dominoes to fall. One was SUPERMAN vs THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, which was a planned (and genuine) event, and the other was the Death of Phoenix, which, while genuine, was not planned.But both planted in the minds of some the notion that it was possible to draw more customers by shouting louder than anybody else. And as the audience shrank (ironically, in no small part due to these continuous and disruptive "events") those who were more easily fooled by such things began to increase in percentage within that audience. And the Companies, being business masquerading as Art, and not the other way 'round, started more and more to pander to that part of the audience.* Decades ago there was a B.C. newspaper strip in which one of the characters discovered "CLAMS GOT LEGS!" Friend and Forum member Paul Gibney long ago paraphrased that to represent the attitudes of the Publishers: "FANS GOT BUCKS!" As long as there were wallets to loot, the Publishers would loot them as deeply as they could. And if, in the end, it was a case of diminishing returns, that didn't matter, as long as there were returns now. _______________________ * During the years when I was trying to make my way into the Biz, it was common to refer to comics as "an artform masquerading as a business." This was not meant to be complimentary. It referred to what seemed the habit of publishing titles that had little chance of selling really well, but were considered "quality product." Something the publishers could be proud to call their own. The Len Wein/Bernie Wrightson SWAMP THING was one example. (Hard to believe, but X-MEN was on that list, once upon a time.) Somewhere in the late Eighties, early Nineties, that flipped, and it became all about the money.
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Tim Cousar Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1666
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 7
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"The Business That Swallowed an Artform"
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Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 8369
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | 8
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Am I off base by saying, this Secret Empire story kinda craps on the legitimate sacrifice made by veterans who actually served and gave their lives to keep this idea from actually happening? I could see maybe a three part arch, but a year and a half?
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Brian Skelley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 February 2012 Location: United States Posts: 231
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 6:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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Shane Matlock wrote:
I'm pretty sure Warren Ellis is responsible for the freaking god awful term "floppies." I always hated it too. Graphic novels, floppies.. It's like they're ashamed to call them comics. At least graphic novel fits if, it's, you know, an original story that's quite lengthy like a novel. But graphic novel seems to be a blanket term for any comic collections even reprints. Either way, it's all just comic books |
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For the entire time I've ever heard the phrase 'floppies' to refer to individual issues of a comic, this thread is the only place I've ever heard it used in any way derogatory. I've seen the phrase used convey what format the comic was in.. trade vs digital vs the standard comic we all came up with and love. The comics we consider the standard issue aren't rigged and do flop if you hold them in one hand. The term (as far as I've ever seen in all these years) was never meant as a insult. While there are some people that do think anything printed is obsolete tech, I've never heard, nor seen any of them in comics.
Honestly it's bizarre how this thread has taken the phrase to such a dark place..
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Shane Matlock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012 Location: United States Posts: 1760
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 10
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The term seemed kind of insulting to me from its first use. What's the point of the phrase "floppy/floppies" anyway? Does there need to be another one besides comic book? In my mind, it's always been a derogatory way to indicate that graphic novels/ tpb collections are better than the monthly issues (which at the time it started being used it was being pushed that monthly comics were becoming obsolete and graphic novels were going to take over). Anyway, if you really need a term besides comics or comic books, doesn't "monthly" or "monthlies" serve the same purpose as "floppy/floppies"? I mean, if you Google "floppy" and "comics" the very first result is someone saying it's not a derogatory term, but why the need to defend it constantly if it's perceived as being derogatory it's probably because a lot of people find it just that.
Edit: Quote from the tenth result on the "floppy comics" Google search is a CBR article from 2013 that states: "Two to three years ago, it seemed inevitable: Single issue comic books, derisively called 'floppies,' were on the way out. Graphic novels were the future for most publishers, and floppies weren’t even working as loss-leaders." http://www.cbr.com/so-much-for-the-death-of-floppies/So, yeah, this thread is hardly the first time people have found the term "floppy" derogatory. It's been divisive from its very first use by a guy that hated superhero comics (even though they gave him a career).
I will say that Steven Grants idea at the time to call them "pamfs" instead (I assume short for pamphlets) is actually way worse.
Edited by Shane Matlock on 25 April 2017 at 3:33pm
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14857
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 11
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Floppies? Pamfs?
If only there were a word for a thin monthly periodical bound by a paper cover full of stories and illustrations...
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Wallace Sellars Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 17699
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 4:05pm | IP Logged | 12
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Anyway, if you really need a term besides comics or comic books, doesn't "monthly" or "monthlies"…
—
Say no more.
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