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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 6:33pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

It is never consensual when someone who has the power to ruin your career chooses to make advances on their subordinate. One word from Clinton and her career would have been over.
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I don't dispute that sometimes that happens. But unless is there evidence that Clinton is guilty of doing that. You can not say for certain that he did that. And you can not say that it wasn't consensual. It is possible that he simply made a sexual advance towards her. It is also possible that had she rejected him nothing would have come of it.  

I also repeat that maybe you are correct. Maybe Clinton is guilty of doing what you suggest. If he did than he is guilty. 

But it is equal possible that the events could have happened differently.
 Or it could have been any combination of everything we wrote. Without proof of how it went. We must be open to all possibilities. 


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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Doesn't matter. Even if I made an advance on one of my legal-aged students, and even if she consented, it is still wrong. There is no situation where it is not inappropriate. There can't be. If she attempted to seduce him, his correct response would have been to refuse her advances and found a way to diffuse the situation. I know of at least two teachers who went to the Principal to let him know about a student (a legal-aged one, not that it matters) who was propositioning them. It was dealt with. That is the proper response. Still amazed how Clinton got a pass on this one and how everyone attacked Lewinsky instead. 
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 6:39pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

When I was in the Army, it was against the rules to be in a relationship with someone under your authority. Just common sense. 
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David Miller
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Clinon and Lewinsky's relationship was entirely inappropriate and unprofessional. And according to both parties, who were both adults, it was  entirely consensual. It was only "molestation" in the right's twisted moral order, which often can't distinguish bestiality from masturbation and suggests "legitimate" rape victims should seek forgiveness.

And it's ridiculous to pretend the right actually cares. Ted Nugent became legal guardian, then married, a 17 year old, which is the kind of thing Bond villains do, and he visited the White House yesterday.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply


When I was in the Army, it was against the rules to be in a relationship with someone under your authority. Just common sense.
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I can certainly agree with you about it being common sense. 

Regardless of how it went down between Clinton and Lewinsky. It was a bad judgement call for both parties involved. Especially so for Clinton because of his position. 
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply


 QUOTE:
And according to both parties, who were both adults, it was entirely consensual.

It can never be consensual when there is a power imbalance. 
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply


 QUOTE:
Ted Nugent became legal guardian, then married, a 17 year old, which is the kind of thing Bond villains do, and he visited the White House yesterday.

Nugent in the White House. Never thought I would see that.
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Jim Lynch
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 8:08pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

you know, I don't post a whole lot around here, basically because I don't want to look stupid with so many learned folks here.
But what the FUCK is it about Bill Clinton that makes conservatives so unglued? Trump couldn't bring ol Slick up enough during the campaign, now in a discussion about Bill O'Reilly being fired for serially victimizing women, we have to drag Clinton up again? I in no way defend Clinton's actions vis a vis Ms. Lewinsky, but the situations are not the same.
but for God's sake, let's continue to bring up the actions of a man who left the White House sixteen goddamn years ago. Let's dredge up LBJ, or Warren Harding while we're at it

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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 8:10pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

And according to both parties, who were both adults, it was entirely consensual.

It can never be consensual when there is a power imbalance. 
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 I can't help but disagree with your use of the word never Neil. I've seen several work place affairs where superiors were involved with people directly under them. I know for a fact that it was consensual.  One of them eventually led to marriage. The other ended up being casual sex. At no point before during or after did the superior abuse their power.

Oh I would also add that in both those cases the superior was a woman. Also in both cases they were the one to instigate the affair. 

In the case of the one concerning the casual sex.  The three of us were very close to each other and I was privy to what was going on from both sides. 
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 8:22pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Teapot Dome. Disgraceful. Bloody Republicans. 
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Talking as a foreigner, my understanding on why Republicans get angry when Clinton is mentioned is the perceived pass he got from the media. If I remember at the time, he was their fair-haired child and Lewinsky was the villain and the press ran with that story, that he was the victim and she was the evil manipulator and temptress. 
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 8:31pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Anthony,  I am a high school teacher. Is it appropriate or acceptable if I ask out a student who is of legal age? Does it matter if she is okay with it or consents to it?  
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Anthony,  I am a high school teacher. Is it appropriate or acceptable if I ask out a student who is of legal age? Does it matter if she is okay with it or consents to it?  
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Neil I would say no it isn't okay but I'm sure you would no better than I the answer to that question. 

However Not every situation is the same.  Not everyone is a teacher and high school student.  

For instance lets say you were a college professor and it were one of your students of legal age. That is a different situation than the question you posed. There may be no problem morally and legally with that one. 

As with the ones I mentioned about my former co-workers. 

Also with  the case with Clinton and Lewinsky. It's different from what I experienced or you high school question. Even my college example.
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 8:46pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

As a teacher, it would not be ok due to the power imbalance, even if it is consensual.  Doesn't matter if they are legal age or not. Same as with Universities. Professors are not allowed to have a relationship with a student if they are their teachers. Same thing goes with your friends. If they had decided to refuse the instigation from their bosses, their boss could have fired them or ruined their career. Even if they say it is consensual, it never can be if there is a power imbalance. 
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 8:59pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

As a teacher, it would not be ok due to the power imbalance, even if it is consensual.  Doesn't matter if they are legal age or not. Same as with Universities. Professors are not allowed to have a relationship with a student if they are their teachers. 
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Having never been a teacher myself. I must concede to you knowledge of the situation.

Same thing goes with your friends. If they had decided to refuse the instigation from their bosses, their boss could have fired them or ruined their career. Even if they say it is consensual, it never can be if there is a power imbalance. 
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In this instance Neil you aren't in their position so you can't speak to it being consensual or not.  

There was a power imbalance but it never came into play even when the casual affair ended.  In this case She was the boss and she didn't end it. The affair was ended by the guy.  She wasn't pleased with that. She could have abused per position but she didn't. She kept her personal disappointment separate from the job. She never punished him for breaking it off. 

She eventually got over it and that was the end of it.  

I'd like to also add that he wasn't the best worker had she fired him she easily could have given good cause. A point I made to her but she wasn't the kind of person to do that kind of thing.


Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 20 April 2017 at 9:01pm
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 9:05pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply


 QUOTE:
She could have abused per position but she didn't.

Therein lies the fundamental problem. 
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 20 April 2017 at 9:14pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply


Therein lies the fundamental problem. 
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Elaborate


Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 20 April 2017 at 9:15pm
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Brandon Frye
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Posted: 21 April 2017 at 12:07am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

So is the title of his next book going to be Killing My Career?


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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 21 April 2017 at 12:24am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Anthony, I don't see how I can elaborate any more than what I did. 
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 21 April 2017 at 3:55am | IP Logged | 20 post reply


So is the title of his next book going to be Killing My Career?
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The title will be 
"How to Trick your Co workers into Having Sex: Without getting a sexual harassment lawsuit filed against you." HA !

As a bit of a side note  for anyone interested. That book title is one I made up years ago. Back when I use to work for Barnes and Nobles. My fellow co workers and I would play jokes on each other. One of the longest running gags was to call the store pretending to be a customer looking for a book. The crazier the title the better.  Well the above was one of the fake titles I invented while playing the joke.


Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 21 April 2017 at 4:00am
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Jeremy Simington
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Bill O finally responded publicly via his podcast, the only mass media outlet available to him <guffaw>.  He's insisting that "the truth will come out." The Washington Post notes that this is interesting since there's no pending litigation with Fox or from any of the women he harassed.  It's rare to see a 67-year-old crybaby, but there you have it.  Good riddance to a true piece of shit.
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 11:22am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I suspect Billo will go to subscription-based satellite radio. He has enough fans to make it worthwhile and that business model doesn't require advertisers. It will keep his brand afloat and sustain his rather middling pseudo-histories ("I was there!" ...yeah right).

And he'll be forgotten by Fox News, cable TV in general and millions of us who are aware of these things by osmosis. If Howard Stern is any indication, O'Reilly's influence in this new medium (if he does go there) will be minimal at best.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Are you implying Howard Stern had minimal influence on satellite radio??

-C!
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Jim, without taking either side… I don't find as much fault with the
conservatives who bring up something Clinton (or Obama) may have done
years ago to divert attention from what one of their guys is doing
now as I do with those who fall for it over and over and over and over and
over again.
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Thomas Woods
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

So was he basically doing what Hollywood has been doing
all along? You rub my back, I will rub yours?
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