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Matt Reed
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Posted: 29 March 2017 at 11:32pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

 Anthony J Lombardi wrote:
But let me give it a go anyway...

At this point you're just naming people of color who have starred in some roles and, yes, perhaps carried a film or two.  But to say, as you did above, that "There are plenty of shows and movies now where the lead actor is a minority actor. I don't think that's a problem any more." is absurd.  On its face.  

Sorry to call you out, but it's true.

The vast majority of mainstream entertainment is driven by white people.  Vast.  By a large margin. It's not even close.  That you can name 8, 16 or 24 people (don't get stuck on numbers...naming a hundred wouldn't matter) that have starred in high profile television series or movies doesn't negate the fact that studio pictures and shows are driven, by and large, by white casts, directors, producers, writers, etc.  We've known of minority actors for years.  I can name a dozen or more pre-1970 off the top of my head.  That in no way means that it's not "a problem anymore".  And even if African Americans can get more than table scraps and a high-profile co-starring role, where are the roles for Hispanics?  Asians? Native Americans?  C'mon, Anthony.  Your defense rings incredibly hollow considering the whole of the minority population with respect to white actors.  It just does. 
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 29 March 2017 at 11:52pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Matt Reed, you are leaping to a conclusion that I didn't make. I didn't say it wasn't a problem anymore.

The point that I was making is that the situation isn't as bad as it use to be. It's gotten better and will continue to do so.


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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 12:07am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Oh please, Anthony.  You said, exactly, "I don't think that's a problem any more".  How is that leaping to a conclusion?  You tell me in your post above that you didn't say it wasn't a problem when your original statement explicitly said that it's not a problem.  So, what, I'm supposed to magically intuit that you don't mean what you wrote?  Worse, that it's my fault that I'm "leaping to a conclusion that" you didn't make?

Seriously?
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 12:32am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

 Matt, you came to the wrong conclusion. If some of the words in my original statement lead you to that. I'm partially to blame and i'll own that. But in response to you I clarified the point I was making. 

 As I have clarified that point. I corrected my part in this misunderstanding.

If you want to continue to argue that point that's entirely up to you. I don't see the need to continue to defend my position. 



Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 30 March 2017 at 12:32am
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 12:47am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

At this point you're just naming people of color who have starred in some roles and, yes, perhaps carried a film or two.  But to say, as you did above, that "There are plenty of shows and movies now where the lead actor is a minority actor. I don't think that's a problem any more." is absurd.  On its face.  

Sorry to call you out, but it's true.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Matt, as a means of trying to understand where you are coming from. I just went back and read the post in which I wrote this. 

Having done so I am reminded as to why I wrote " I don't think that's a problem anymore."  

It was in response to the comment about the same five black leads.  Hence my posting all the names. There are more than just five actors out there that are getting leading roles.


Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 30 March 2017 at 12:49am
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 12:51am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Own up to it, dude.  That's all I'm saying.  You immediately jumped to blaming me for something you wrote.  

You said, verbatim, "There are plenty of shows and movies now where the lead actor is a minority actor. I don't think that's a problem any more."

And then, when I called you on that, you said verbatim "I didn't say it wasn't a problem anymore." 

You then went on to blame me for jumping to conclusions and compounded it by your latest response saying that I "came to the wrong conclusion".  

Your "words in my original statement" didn't lead me to that, Anthony.  They didn't lead anywhere.  They told me exactly where you stood.  

This is what I hate.  When a person writes something (a post, a blog, an article) and then are called on it, instead of owning up to it, that person wants to cast blame on someone else.  When they can't do that, they want to at least attribute some of the blame on anyone but themselves.  

Bullshit.  

Yes, you've clarified your position but you've intentionally tried to drag me into crap by saying that I "misunderstood" something that you blatantly said with very little grey area.  I misunderstood nothing.  I took you at face value and called you on it.  The least you could do is own up to it and say that what you wrote wasn't what you really meant without finding a way to blame me or anyone else along the way.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 12:58am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

 Anthony J Lombardi wrote:
There are more than just five actors out there that are getting leading roles.

I get it.  I really do.  But that's your go to?  To name 20 actors in leading roles that happen to be minorities and say that "it's not a problem any more"?

Seriously?

You can't see how tone deaf that is?
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 1:19am | IP Logged | 8 post reply



Own up to it, dude.  That's all I'm saying.  You immediately jumped to blaming me for something you wrote.  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I already owned up to it. 
````
You said, verbatim, "There are plenty of shows and movies now where the lead actor is a minority actor. I don't think that's a problem any more."

And then, when I called you on that, you said verbatim "I didn't say it wasn't a problem anymore." 

You then went on to blame me for jumping to conclusions and compounded it by your latest response saying that I "came to the wrong conclusion".  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your conclusion was wrong. I informed you that it was wrong. I don't blame you for being wrong. As I stated above I owned up to my part in the confusion.
```````````````


Your "words in my original statement" didn't lead me to that, Anthony.  They didn't lead anywhere.  They told me exactly where you stood.  
~~~~

Again I'm telling you that you are wrong. That's not where I stood. 
``````````````````


This is what I hate.  When a person writes something (a post, a blog, an article) and then are called on it, instead of owning up to it, that person wants to cast blame on someone else.  When they can't do that, they want to at least attribute some of the blame on anyone but themselves.
~~~~~

You are purposefully being hard headed and I hate that. 
There was a misunderstanding. Which can easily happen. Especially when communicating online YOU misunderstood the point I was making. I don't blame you it. I just informed you that you did. I went on to clarify what my point was in an attempt to clear up that understanding. 








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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 1:21am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

ony J Lombardi wrote:
There are more than just five actors out there that are getting leading roles.

I get it.  I really do.  But that's your go to?  To name 20 actors in leading roles that happen to be minorities and say that "it's not a problem any more"?

Seriously?

You can't see how tone deaf that is?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you really get it. Than why are we continuing down this road?
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 1:31am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Matt, you came to the wrong conclusion. That was your mistake. I lead you to that conclusion. That was my mistake. It wasn't my intention to mislead you or anyone else. Let's move on from this and get back on topic. 

 This side track has more than sufficiently annoyed me. I don't want to be bothered with it anymore. So I'm moving on from it. I hope that you do as well. 

It's not my desire to put you on my ignore list. I also don't want to be added to yours. For the sake of savings us both from being stressed or having to resort to ignoring each other.  Let us both move on from this.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 2:18am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

First off, you can't put me on your ignore list because I'm a Mod.  You can't ignore a Mod, at least on this forum.  So there's that.

Second, you continue to want to take zero ownership of creating the confusion that lead to this impasse.  You want to say that it's either all my doing or want to split the blame so that you at least share less of it, which I'm unwilling to do.  To say that I "came to the wrong conclusion" when you outright stated the conclusion in no uncertain terms, is ludicrous. 

At the end of the day, I can only conclude that you're an ass who has less of a concern over the truth and more a concern over what you believe and then you'll forge ahead regardless.  So...good on ya, Anthony.  Keep on keepin' on.  
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 2:29am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

And, for the record, this wasn't a "side track".  It was the crux of your argument.  It's what you hinged everything you wrote about after you said that "It's not a problem any more".  It's all you have to stand on in this entire discussion.  It's not a small thing, otherwise I wouldn't have given two shits about it.  

Stop passing your comments off and trying to sound like the voice of reason all the while trying to make me the crazy one with your passive/aggressive bullshit. OWN UP to what you wrote, dude.  OWN UP to it.  And be OK if what you wrote is wrong.  That's cool.  That's OK.  There's nothing wrong with that.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 2:29am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Having done so I am reminded as to why I wrote " I don't think that's a
problem anymore."

It was in response to the comment about the same five black leads.
Hence my posting all the names.

-----

Not really interested in mixing it up with you more, but just for the sake
of resisting "alternative facts", your comment about "I don't think that's a
problem anymore" came before my comment, not in response to it.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 2:41am | IP Logged | 14 post reply



Second, you continue to want to take zero ownership of creating the confusion that lead to this impasse.  You want to say that it's either all my doing or want to split the blame so that you at least share less of it, which I'm unwilling to do.  To say that I "came to the wrong conclusion" when you outright stated the conclusion in no uncertain terms, is ludicrous. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I took ownership for  my part in this.
``````````````````````

At the end of the day, I can only conclude that you're an ass who has less of a concern over the truth and more a concern over what you believe and then you'll forge ahead regardless.  So...good on ya, Anthony.  Keep on keepin' on.  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm not going to waste my time trading insults with you. Frankly you aren't worth the effort. I've tried to resolve this matter,I'm done trying. 

You maybe correct that I can't click a button and add you to an ignore list. But what I can do is choose to give you the amount of attention you deserve.  So I choose to ignore you.  It's a shame that it's come to that conclusion. I will bare you no ill will Matt Reed. But I refuse to allow someone who has next to no importance in my life stress me out. 
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 2:49am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Interesting discussion...unfortunate that it went down the road it did.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 2:53am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Brian, hopefully it's not to late to get it back on track.
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 3:03am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

*Swapping out Matt Reed for Barack Obama*...I kid....
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 3:34am | IP Logged | 18 post reply


 QUOTE:
So trying to artificially force diversity by setting what amount to
quotas (okay, there are 7 characters so we need three male, three
female, one trans character, four of the others have to be heterosexual
and the other two gay or lesbian, two need to be black, one Asian, one
Hispanic, etc. etc.) isn't solving the problem.


The problem there is that the mindset of white being the default is so
pervasive and insidious, even among minorities and people who are
conscious of racial issues. One of the things that made me conscious
of these issues has been being on the internet, where so many people,
even other minorities, will just assume you are white until you indicate
otherwise. And when people are starting from "white as default", how
would that affect how they create characters? How would that affect
how they cast them? And how do you counter that mindset without
"forcing diversity"?
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 3:55am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

The problem there is that the mindset of white being the default is so 
pervasive and insidious, even among minorities and people who are 
conscious of racial issues. One of the things that made me conscious 
of these issues has been being on the internet, where so many people, 
even other minorities, will just assume you are white until you indicate 
otherwise. And when people are starting from "white as default", how 
would that affect how they create characters? How would that affect 
how they cast them? And how do you counter that mindset without 
"forcing diversity"?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Do people start from "White as Default? I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just asking the question.  My reason for asking it is because I've had discussions with several of my friends about this subject. We are from various backgrounds and ethnic groups. The conclusion that we came to is that people by default look like themselves.

 Who knows why people do that. Maybe it's because unconsciously we are trying to relate to people. Perhaps the quickest way to achieve that goal is to picture ourselves in others. Maybe but who knows.


Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 30 March 2017 at 3:56am
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 9:08am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

 Anthony J Lombardi wrote:
YOU misunderstood the point I was making. I don't blame you it. I just informed you that you did. I went on to clarify what my point was in an attempt to clear up that understanding.

I "misunderstood" nothing, Anthony.  You came to a poorly worded conclusion and I called you on it.  And yet you still insist that it's my problem that I didn't understand what you wrote...only it was written as plain as day, however flawed your conclusion was. 

Keep on keepin' on, Anthony.  
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

There are two kinds of people with whom one should not argue on internet forums: People who seem to enjoy antagonistic argument/'debate'; and site moderators. 

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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 11:08am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I don't mind the give and take that occurs when making an argument. As long as it remains civil and respectful of the other person involved. Once disrespect enters into the fray. It just becomes unproductive for all involved.

 Especially when it occurs online. These things usually don't come to a satisfactory resolution. Not when people can't be held accountable for their actions. 
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply


Having done so I am reminded as to why I wrote " I don't think that's a 
problem anymore." 

It was in response to the comment about the same five black leads. 
Hence my posting all the names.

-----

Not really interested in mixing it up with you more, but just for the sake 
of resisting "alternative facts", your comment about "I don't think that's a 
problem anymore" came before my comment, not in response to it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You're correct Michael.  I attributed my remark to the wrong response. It was unintentional.

~~~~~~~

Here is what I was responding to.....

If the production attempted to find actors of the proper ethnic groups 
and could not fill those roles, do you believe it's due to a shortage of 
minority actors with ability or is it risk aversion to minority actors in lead 
roles? If it is the latter, don't you see the problem?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are plenty of shows and movies now where the lead actor is a minority actor. I don't think that's a problem any more.  As to the shortage of minority actors. I REALLY don't think there are a shortage of them out there. I think it's more likely a case of studio's wanting to cast a known quantity over an unknown. That's something not limited to minorities. 

What I didn't see as a problem was the shortage of minority actors for leading roles in movies and tv shows. 

My second list of actors was in response to the post about the five black leads.




Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 30 March 2017 at 3:31pm
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

One of my (other) favorite forums has a jerk for a moderator...but he stopped posting there on a regular basis and now prefers to run things 'behind the scenes', leaving it to assistants to 'live' on the boards and deal with issues in the open.
IMO, a 'moderator' should be...'moderate'...in tone, not a 'rent-a-cop' who thinks he's Dirty Harry.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

IMO, a 'moderator' should be...'moderate'...in tone, not a 'rent-a-cop' who thinks he's Dirty Harry.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think that's the very least that we can hope to get.

At most we can hope that a mod doesn't abuse his or her position.  
If the mod is capable of behaving in that manner. Than I think it's okay for them to engage in the discussions that interest them.

Any personal disagreements shouldn't be resolved by abusing that position. 


Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 30 March 2017 at 3:43pm
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