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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132303
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| Posted: 25 March 2017 at 7:06am | IP Logged | 1
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I remember opening issue 1 of the Claremont/Miller Wolverine and not understanding why Wolverine had knives coming out of the backs of his hands and not claws?•• That series is one of the first examples of the singer becoming more important than the song. I looked at the way Frank was drawing Wolverine, with Clint Eastwood's face and the samurai sword "claws", and I could think only of the number of times my own art had been reworked because someone decided I was "off-model". The "sword claws" made no real sense in any context: they did not look like how the claws had been drawn before and, with the back of the "sword" facing the back of Wolverine's hand, the cutting edge would be along the top, meaning Logan would have to slash backward in order to cut, something we had not seen him do. +++ I always thought of Wolverine's claws as kind of a unique weapon that were sharp from any side. There is an X-Men (maybe 126?) where he actually cuts three, horizontal "cut-out" slots in a table when he reacts to something Scott tells him. As a kid I thought, "these aren't just cat claws, there is something extra special about them." Maybe it was the adamantium? •• Because of the "indestructible" nature of adamantium, when drawing Wolverine I assumed that the claws tapered to a molecular level, which allowed him to slice into just about anything, cutting "between" the atoms!
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Ronald Joseph
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1784
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| Posted: 25 March 2017 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 2
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...I assumed that the claws tapered to a molecular level, which allowed him to slice into just about anything, cutting "between" the atoms!
And then you gave us that with Nemesis, who is, to this day, one of my very favorite characters you created.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30901
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| Posted: 25 March 2017 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 3
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So, could the sword cut thru Wolverine's claws?
Captain America's shield?
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 25 March 2017 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 4
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JB: "That kind of thinking is a warning sign that it is time to stop reading comics."
Well, I've stopped BUYING most comics... probably the same principle.
And my sinking in to Fanboyish anguish is due to YOU, Mr. Byrne! I got suckered in to YOUR stories and those made so much sense that I thought other writers might too...
I'm too damned old. Notwithstanding reading comics... at my age, I should be DEAD. :)
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Robert Shepherd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 March 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 1268
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| Posted: 25 March 2017 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | 5
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Ronald, I also liked Nemesis. And that sword became the scariest weapon in comics. I'm glad it didn't get into any other hands. (or did it?)
For Wolverines claws I always felt they should have only sliced deep as long as Wolverine's strength overcame the resistance of the thickness of the claws against whatever material they were cutting. Three claws triples the resistance as well (or would they increase resistance log3? 9x). Still the sharpest physical things around by far, but perhaps not so sharp that Wolverine could cut through all things.
Nemesis' blade though? Now we're talking sharp. Severing the bonds of molecules? Holy crap? Could anything short of a force field stop that? Would Nemesis feel any measurable friction against materials to fight against? And the heat released from severing molecules must be pretty extreme too. Nasty, nasty weapon. Like I said....very scary.
Could that sword cut through Wolverines claws or Caps Shield? Probably. But I like to think that Cap's shield is truly impervious and adamantium not far behind.
Edited by Robert Shepherd on 25 March 2017 at 5:58pm
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Jeremy Simington
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 687
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| Posted: 26 March 2017 at 7:16am | IP Logged | 6
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I wish the "tiny swords" had never happened. See below for an actual wolverine's claws. As JB noted, they are D-shaped and plenty capable of doing damage. Marvel editorial decided at some point that artistic license trumped staying on model.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12444
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| Posted: 26 March 2017 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 7
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QUOTE:
| When Len Wein conceived the character (planning him to be part of s new X-Men team even then), Wolverine was super-tough. Tough enough to bounce back from a fight with the Hulk. |
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And that alone was not enough, I guess -- sheesh! Back in 1974 you could practically count on one hand the number of characters who could not be demolished by the Hulk! (It should've stayed that way.)
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Greg Woronchak
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Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 27 March 2017 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 8
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The "sword claws" made no real sense in any context:
For me, those claws feel less three-dimensional, if that makes sense. They feel 'flat' and awkward. I guess editorial thought it was a 'cool' idea at the time!
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Darren Taylor
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 5994
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| Posted: 28 March 2017 at 4:12am | IP Logged | 9
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If you have ever had to ink Wolverine's claws. It is far easier to do the sword blade version than the claws. There is definitely more skill required to do two long curved lines than breaking them up into smaller more manageable angles, be they the sword or bone versions.
I wonder if this has had any baring on their persistence.
-D
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Lee Mayor
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 22
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| Posted: 28 March 2017 at 9:48am | IP Logged | 10
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Always loved the way Jim Lee drew them, hated the way Liefeld drew them....
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Roy Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 1323
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| Posted: 28 March 2017 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | 11
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Kinda funny that the updated Handbook entry kept the same mistake, transposing the carpal and tarsal labels.
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Jeremy Simington
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 687
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| Posted: 29 March 2017 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 12
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On a scale of 1-10, how pedantic is it for me to point out that the carpal/tarsal problem is only 1 of 4 mistakes? Others:It's fibula, not fibia That's not the coccyx, it's the sacrum The radius and the ulna aren't quite drawn correctly, but as drawn, the radius is mis-labeled as the ulna and vice-versa
How pedantic? About a 17.
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Topic Closed)
